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Stevens-Costello Embouchure


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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2024 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are "upstream" and "downstream" embouchures used in Stevens' pedagogy?
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steve0930
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2024 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi herbievantetering

Quote:
Stevens Costello is not a useful system


I am curious to know why you have resurrected (Today Easter Sunday in Orthodox Calendar..) a thread 11 years old only to refute it? It feels like the Dog that didn't bark in the Night.
Cheers Steve
PS Feel free to use the word "Elementary" in your reply.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Are "upstream" and "downstream" embouchures used in Stevens' pedagogy?

-----------------------------------------
Stevens writes about 'aiming the air up', but I don't think he gets into determining the actual direction of air flow.
He also doesn't directly associate the direction of the 'aiming' with the distribution of upper / lower lip rim position (as is sometimes done regarding Reinhardt terminology).

My feeling is that Stevens has an emphasis on controlled lower lip rim pressure and jaw position - and that is used to accomplish 'aiming the air up'.
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Al Innella
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2024 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Are "upstream" and "downstream" embouchures used in Stevens' pedagogy?

-----------------------------------------
Stevens writes about 'aiming the air up', but I don't think he gets into determining the actual direction of air flow.
He also doesn't directly associate the direction of the 'aiming' with the distribution of upper / lower lip rim position (as is sometimes done regarding Reinhardt terminology).

My feeling is that Stevens has an emphasis on controlled lower lip rim pressure and jaw position - and that is used to accomplish 'aiming th
e air up'.

Where do you direct your air when playing F and G above high C. If you can demonstrate this we might see and understand how it's done and hear how it's supposed to sound. It would clear up a lot of questions.
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2024 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow still no response.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2024 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:
Wow still no response.

-------------
It appears that no one who can actually play the notes you asked about using 'Costello / Stevens' technique is interested in replying. If I could play them (I can't), I might be able demonstrate.

For me, playing up to high C includes adding more lower lip rim pressure (which for me relieves some upper lip rim pressure and makes lip vibration easier, and also getting the feeling of lip / teeth alignment that would direct the air stream up towards the tip of my nose. My lower lip increased rim pressure does not involve much movement of my jaw, and I don't purposely tilt the horn.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Al Innella
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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Location: Levittown NY

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2024 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Al Innella wrote:
Wow still no response.

-------------
It appears that no one who can actually play the notes you asked about using 'Costello / Stevens' technique is interested in replying. If I could play them (I can't), I might be able demonstrate.

For me, playing up to high C includes adding more lower lip rim pressure (which for me relieves some upper lip rim pressure and makes lip vibration easier, and also getting the feeling of lip / teeth alignment that would direct the air stream up towards the tip of my nose. My lower lip increased rim pressure does not involve much movement of my jaw, and I don't purposely tilt the horn.


So your saying you don't have an upper register. Topping out at a high C-D is not that high. I know players who studied with Roy Stevens who can play double C and above. So I guess you never studied with Roy. I didn't ask if anyone could demonstrate Roy's method, , I was asking if you can demonstrate your method , if you can't play an F or G above high C you didn't study with Roy, but you are the embouchure expert. You tell everyone how to change their embouchure. One poster said he had a solid E above double C but had trouble getting the D below to slot. Your advise, , change the position of the mouthpiece , a high school player was getting headaches, obviously a breathing problem, your fix, change the position the mouthpiece, no mention about breathing. What I question is your ability to do what you tell everyone else to do.
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trumpetteacher1
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2024 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:
but you are the embouchure expert. You tell everyone how to change their embouchure.


This is simply not true. Jay attempts to describe the embouchure territory in the most general way possible.

Al, rather than taking repeated personal shots at him, why don't you instead try pointing out where you think his - specific- ideas are wrong?

Jeff
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Al Innella
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2024 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetteacher1 wrote:
Al Innella wrote:
but you are the embouchure expert. You tell everyone how to change their embouchure.


This is simply not true. Jay attempts to describe the embouchure territory in the most general way possible.

Al, rather than taking repeated personal shots at him, why don't you instead try pointing out where you think his - specific- ideas are wrong?

Jeff


I thought I did. A breathing problem is not an embouchure problem. He was willing to let this kid continue breathing incorrectly by letting him think he had a embouchure problem, this is wrong. Look he responds to every query about range and endurance, if I were to point out everyone ,I'd be here all day. He read a book about embouchure and hasn't figured out how it works. If he did he would be able show us, not guess . It's not personal, I just think he's doing more harm than good. I read a cook book, it doesn't make me a master chef.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2024 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are those who "have gone before".
There are those who have experience teaching with success.
There are those who amalgamize what they have read.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3389
Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2024 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:


I thought I did. ...

-----------------------------------
Al, when you see something that is really from me that you disagree with, please post your thoughts. And reference the specific post that is troublesome.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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