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The best "all around" flugelhorn


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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Is the following accurate, in the spirit of generalizing about modern flugelhorns:

Bore Metrics

.433 - M bore

.441 - L bore

.459 - V L bore

You are missing some other common bore sizes. For example:

Yamaha 6310Z/8310Z "Bobby Shew" flugels: .413" bore

B&S Challenger II "Brochon" flugelhorn: .409" bore

Bach Model 183 flugelhorn: .401" bore
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What would you consider to be the best all around flugelhorn available? And what do you use your flugelhorn for?


I've only played 5-6 flugelhorn models, but of them, I liked the Getzen 4895 and the Van Laar B1 (which I own) the best. Both wonderful horns.

I use my flugelhorn whenever the piece/part requires it. That could be for a band, orchestra, quintet, church gig....
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by DAVIDTHEWRITER on Mon May 27, 2024 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote:
Is there some reason this thread continues to be in the "Horns" category ... rather, than more properly, in the Cornets/Flugelhorns category?

Maybe (?) the Moderators are On Strike for higher pay ... OR -- they are old and decrepit.


Too busy playing taps at memorial services, cutting down some trees for fire mitigation, and seeing family than to deal with snarky internet posters about a thread doing OK where it is. But thanks for the advice.
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Is the following accurate, in the spirit of generalizing about modern flugelhorns:

Bore Metrics

.433 - M bore

.441 - L bore

.459 - V L bore

You are missing some other common bore sizes. For example:

Yamaha 6310Z/8310Z "Bobby Shew" flugels: .413" bore

B&S Challenger II "Brochon" flugelhorn: .409" bore

Bach Model 183 flugelhorn: .401" bore


Great. I'll add those as Small bores.

What's the one greatest effect of bore size, generally?
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
What's the one greatest effect of bore size, generally?

The bigger the bore, the longer the yawns.

Seriously, read this thread:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79048

BTW, I am reminded that there was a Mario Corso flugelhorn with a bore size of .475" -- NOW what are you going to do?

Actually, I got to try one of these once, and I would question whether it is really a flugelhorn. For one thing, it used a much bigger mouthpiece (not a normal flugel shank at all). I wondered if it might be a reconfigured alto horn in the key of B-flat. Interesting beast apprearance-wise, though:

http://mariocorso.com/ (Click on the "Gallery" tab -- it's the image that appears immediately)

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"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll observe that the mid size bore .433 has probably provided the manufacturers with an existing standard that serves their hope to sell units to a broad spectrum of players.

The annual demand for new flugelhorns having been decimated during the epidemic.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
I'll observe that the mid size bore .433 has probably provided the manufacturers with an existing standard that serves their hope to sell units to a broad spectrum of players.

The annual demand for new flugelhorns having been decimated during the epidemic.

The whole premise you are constructing here is inaccurate.

Are you trying to write some kind of book about flugelhorns? If so, your research needs to extend beyond culling information from internet forums.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"


Last edited by Halflip on Mon May 27, 2024 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
I'll observe that the mid size bore .433 has probably provided the manufacturers with an existing standard that serves their hope to sell units to a broad spectrum of players.

The annual demand for new flugelhorns having been decimated during the epidemic.

The whole premise you are constructing here is inaccurate.

Are you trying to write some kind of book about flugelhorns? If so, your research needs to extend beyond culling information from internet forums.


Just the one observation and a joke. I have no idea about the annual demand for flugelhorns.

Thanks to the mods for moving the thread.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Just the one observation and a joke. I have no idea about the annual demand for flugelhorns.

Well, your one observation is still a bit 'off' if one considers that Yamaha, for example, started out with flugelhorns having a .433" bore and moved to the .413" bore for its top-end horns.

If you were engaged in writing a book using material from this forum, I'd have suggested that you check with the Moderators regarding your intention.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Just the one observation and a joke. I have no idea about the annual demand for flugelhorns.

Well, your one observation is still a bit 'off' if one considers that Yamaha, for example, started out with flugelhorns having a .433" bore and moved to the .413" bore for its top-end horns.

If you were engaged in writing a book using material from this forum, I'd have suggested that you check with the Moderators regarding your intention.


Stand down. Repeating that implies that I am not answering your question in good faith.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Stand down. Repeating that implies that I am not answering your question in good faith.

Sorry. No offense intended. Perhaps I read too much into your chosen userid.
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"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Stand down. Repeating that implies that I am not answering your question in good faith.

Sorry. No offense intended. Perhaps I read too much into your chosen userid.


No worries.

Flugelhorns World lacks the snappy "standards", like _ Bach 7C mouthpiece _ for whatever sake that became a standard start (and not relevant).

I was observing that there is a bit of middle space emerging. Especially in the models I've been looking at. Yamaha seems to have been an influencer, which is never a bad thing.

I did take your advice and skimmed the bore discussion. It's multiple pages, implying a lot of diverse insights. All the more reason I'm fine muddling in that middle range.

My joke was a subtle irony, because there couldn't be that much annual demand specifically for flugelhorns, versus trumpets or corollas, yet look at the diversity nonetheless. It's a different thing than the more prescriptive world of trumpets and cornets.

The user name is a warning that I am a writer. So I guess the first time was appropriate.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2024 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this thread! I like the Bobby Shew 8310Z Flugelhorn. It has a light and sweet sound, not tubby, nimble. Some flugelhorns, especially with the ultra deep flugelhorn mouthpieces that I don't care for either, don't sing to me.

I use it to play jazz and play in horn sections but I would be fine playing it in a British Brass Band too. It also happens to match pretty well with my 8310Z trumpet.
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Halflip wrote:
DAVIDTHEWRITER wrote:
Stand down. Repeating that implies that I am not answering your question in good faith.

Sorry. No offense intended. Perhaps I read too much into your chosen userid.


No worries.

Flugelhorns World lacks the snappy "standards", like _ Bach 7C mouthpiece _ for whatever sake that became a standard start (and not relevant).

I was observing that there is a bit of middle space emerging. Especially in the models I've been looking at. Yamaha seems to have been an influencer, which is never a bad thing.

I did take your advice and skimmed the bore discussion. It's multiple pages, implying a lot of diverse insights. All the more reason I'm fine muddling in that middle range.

My joke was a subtle irony, because there couldn't be that much annual demand specifically for flugelhorns, versus trumpets or corollas, yet look at the diversity nonetheless. It's a different thing than the more prescriptive world of trumpets and cornets.

The user name is a warning that I am a writer. So I guess the first time was appropriate.



Noted, that you are a writer.
Consider (?) employing a copy-editor &/or proof-reader.
Your next to last paragraph above, mentions "trumpets or corollas".
What is THAT all about ?
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DAVIDTHEWRITER
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2024 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Economics is a matter of allocating resources.

I feel certain that the world demands and produces more trumpets annually and more Corollas annually, yet look at the diversity of flugelhorns despite modest demand.

It's more of a SIGH than anything interesting.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2024 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, it is my Couesnon. It sings. It plays in tune with its own mouthpiece all the way up and down the scale. It has that inimitable combination of tone, piquancy, smokiness, and lyric quality that makes this horn do everything. You can shade it at will with proper embouchure. It defies the faddish "have to be as dark as possible" tone, because that is NOT what flugel is all about. Actually, I have two contemporary Couesnon mouthpieces to go with it: one is a little darker, one is a little brighter. One will blend perfectly in a section, the other will bring out a solo better than anything else out there.
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote:
Is there some reason this thread continues to be in the "Horns" category ... rather, than more properly, in the Cornets/Flugelhorns category?

Maybe (?) the Moderators are On Strike for higher pay ... OR -- they are old and decrepit.


Too busy playing taps at memorial services, cutting down some trees for fire mitigation, and seeing family than to deal with snarky internet posters about a thread doing OK where it is. But thanks for the advice.


I see you moved the thread ....
(You don't have to thank me.)
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote:
Don Herman rev2 wrote:
Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote:
Is there some reason this thread continues to be in the "Horns" category ... rather, than more properly, in the Cornets/Flugelhorns category?

Maybe (?) the Moderators are On Strike for higher pay ... OR -- they are old and decrepit.


Too busy playing taps at memorial services, cutting down some trees for fire mitigation, and seeing family than to deal with snarky internet posters about a thread doing OK where it is. But thanks for the advice.


I see you moved the thread ....
(You don't have to thank me.)

Not me, I was busy.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: The best "all around" flugelhorn Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
What would you consider to be the best all around flugelhorn available? And what do you use your flugelhorn for?

Best is a subjective term, but if I were to pick something, it'd probably be a European flugelhorn. Something like Schagerl, Gansch, Adams, or Miraphone maybe. The reason for that is that it seems to me that in the USA, the flugelhorn is primarily used as a side instrument or doubler. Meanwhile, in European flugel country there are many folks who play it as their primary instrument. And they're very, very good at it. During my recent visit to Adams I was pleasantly surprised at both the variety, popularity and the quality of the instruments, but what really blew me away (almost literally) was the demo the sales guy gave...really some next level flugel playing. The flugel is way more prominent in the musical community (not just used as a solo instrument, but also in sections...why, they even march with flugels!) which results in higher demands and standards (also because it pays off to make such high end instruments). When looking at advanced designs for rotary flugels for example, that have multiple water keys just to allow professional players to use them to color the sound and adjust intonation...

It's just next level imho. There's a need and and a want for flugelhorn playing that drives innovation and design that, as far as I can tell, simply doesn't seem to be present in America. Or at least, not to such an extent.
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