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What you ‘hate’ about Bach 37s


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dracul
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I HATE the increased resistance above High C. It seems to choke me out like an unseen assailant. Not sure the cause of this (aside from my own shortcomings) but I don't have this issue on most other horns. I have a Lightweight version from the 70's.
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Rhondo
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, at least with the yellow brass bell 180 37, the cutting edge it can exhibit may be more of a negative than positive characteristic. It can be ear splitting.

In a direct comparison video between a 1970 Strad and ‘54(?) Olds Recording, the clearest difference to me was that the Recording softened that edge a bit. The Olds however was said not to project as well, so depending on your preference, that could be a disadvantage.
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Mac Gollehon
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locks in like a broken accelerator
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BreakFromTheHerd
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too tight above the staff.

I much prefer my reverse pipe 43.
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AndyDavids
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price...
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuffy; tight blow; does not resonate. The New York 7 is the only Bach that I care for.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That they are the number one selling trumpet.
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things, they are stuffy and unresponsive.

The third, which is probably my biggest annoyance is that they are "recommended" as the ultimate gotta have horn for anyone looking for a nicer trumpet. The hard and fast truth is that many young trumpeters get one because some well-meaning soul blindly recommended or strongly encouraged them or their parents to get one and it is NOT the ideal trumpet for them.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:

Sorry for derailing the thread. Back to answering the OP's question: given the sheer number of Bach's out there I'm sure there are some I'd like. I'm not against anyone playing one either. It's mostly that the few I've tried didn't really 'click'.

As an industry standard, Bach is often recommended when people ask advice on 'what to buy'. Personally, I feel people would find a better fit trying instruments for themselves, rather than ordering something online based on reputation alone (if that then turns out to be a Bach, then great, but at least it's an informed choice rather than an automatic one). Some people seem to prefer a 'safe choice' over a 'good choice', rather being 'not wrong' than 'being right', which is kinda what I feel Bach (and to a large extent Yamaha as well) represents: a safe answer that more than likely will be good enough. Just not very exciting.


No worries. It seems to have gotten back on track just fine. I would tend to agree that the 37 is, in general, maybe not the best bell Bach makes, but I think that has a lot to do with the rest of the horn. I know someone with a medium bell 37 that is fantastic - very warm and focused. It is quite a bit different than the standard 37/25 combo with the square slide. My own horn is a 37 I picked up from Dick Akright many moons ago. It had some custom work done to it for a previous owner and it certainly played better than I did, and probably still can take more than I can give it. It's not at all stuffy, probably owing to the rounded slide that gives me about a 1/8" pull - playing in cold rooms makes me nervous.

I think what happened with makers who produced standard models but also offered custom services is that they would make horns designed to be acceptable to the majority of players, but those horns are exceptional or even great for only a few players. Customization was available for those who needed something specific. Yamaha started to break that mold when they hired Bob Malone and Wayne Tanabe, and started putting some of what were custom tweaks into their standard models. Bach started to follow suit and began to build some great standard horns that would previously have been custom builds.

But all of this comes back to the horn in question: The 180 Series with the 37 bell. Jim Donaldson said it best when he had his list "If My Trumpet Were a Car, What Model Would it Be?" For Bach, he listed "Volvo: Solid cars, but boring."
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JSco
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting topic for me. Like many others, in high school and early college I played a plain old Bach 37 made in about the year 2000, a stock horn no special voo-doo, blueprinting, early elkhart, mt. vernon magic. I felt like I was battling it all the time. Along the way I switched to primarily playing a Getzen Eterna and later a Schilke HC2, which represent very different build specs and philosophies from the Bach (esp. the Schilke). During that time I dreaded playing my 37 when my other horns were in the shop, and I would talk negatively about the 37 any time the topic came up. I hated the valves, blow, and cracked notes all the time.

Fast forward to this year, now I only play the 37 as my primary Bb. I'm not sure what the turning point was specifically, but the tone is exactly what I want. The old, perceived idiosyncrasies that drove me crazy back in the day like "tight", "restrictive", "bad high register", slow valves, etc. seem negligible for me now when compared to other horns. Maybe that's because I've been playing a Bach 229/25H lately which is a total bear! Anything compared to that feels like a cakewalk lol.

Just goes to show your tastes and mileage will vary over time! My past self would not believe I was typing this post.
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Stradbrother
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My journey is mirrored with a few other people here.

I bought my Bach Strad 37 in high school, back around 2007.

As you probably realized from the date, yes, this was a strike Strad. Not an Eastlake Strad, but one very close to the strike, at the lowest point of QC.

I HATED that horn. It was heavy, it felt tight, my tone was dull, the slots were incredibly hard to play with.

I really struggled, but it was "what everyone gets". It wasnt until I was in college that I tried another Bach, an Early Elkhart 43 that a friend played. It was so much better.

I ended up moving on to Getzen and never looked back.

However, I recently, nearly 20 years later, found a new Bach 37 that I did like. Its super new, like, 700,000 serial series.

Plays so much better. Feels solid. Tone is still dull, but its better than my old one.

Is it better because I got better? Is it just a better horn? probably a bit of both.

I do know that If I have a student that plays similarly to my blow, I do not reccomend a Strad 37 sight unseen.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't play Bach equipment. Never have. But I had a Bach 190-37 for a while and it was the best "Goldilocks" horn I ever played.
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cantabile
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought my 37 about 14 years ago in Australia where quality, mainstream choices were more limited in a 'reasonable', but still up there BTW, price range.
With intensive A/B testing in the retailer's room vs Yamaha, the Bach just felt like it had something extra. Local preferences at the time in conservatory & pro circles also leaned Bach 37.
Trumpet is secondary to my playing brass band Bb cornet - aim is to extend my experience, and I've been generally happy with it in orchestral, wind, and big band. Especially when settling into the adjustment from cornet in those contexts - not insignificant - it's a different beast.
I also played Eb Soprano cornet for many years - trumpet is a much bigger change.
Have not felt the 'tightness' some have commented on - quite the opposite - feels like plenty of headroom. But my one obstacle is tuning the main slide - I have to push it right in to get anywhere near in tune on the normal C benchmark.
On the cornet I've sat on 1cm out over decades and different instruments including the Eb. Currently Yamaha Xeno which I'm very comfortable with.
I'm curious if anyone has a view, given ALL the other technique variables of course! MP Bach 5B (have tried the other usual Bachs 1C-7C). I generally fit best in that 5 kind of size on both cornet and trumpet.
Thanks!


Last edited by cantabile on Thu May 16, 2024 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've worked on hundreds of 37's and some are, as others have mentioned, so tight you feel as if you are strangled going up in the register. I'm not sure what accounts for that, possibly cut off too small on the mandrel in making.

But I'm restoring an old 37 that plays pretty open. Just goes to show that you might try multiple horns before deciding...

They can be great.
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Betcar81
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2024 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodmorning, i am an Italian trumpet player.
I have always played Bach trumpets in my life, in sequence ML18037 reverse 1993, ML18043 sterling silver 2004, ML18037 star 1978, Artisan 190 2014 and now ML18037 1970 and I have tried many in general.
I would say that the Bachs are all different from each other, personally I look for an immediate response and good intonation.
Many Bachs give the effect of playing tight, you can always change the leadpipe to a more open one if necessary.
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Mark Bradley
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2024 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My playing, can't really blame it on the horn.


Like the relatively unknown and underrated large bore 25 bell however.


"Like a man that can't play a tune, blowing a horn right loud, hoping that in a minute it will begin to make music." William Faulkner, Light In August
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improver
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing I dislike about my 37. Best trumpet ever made, and it ain't close
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LadFree
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im sure that the 37 bell matches very well with a large diameter mouthpiece.
If you notice, legit players with their 1C mouthpieces seem to gravitate to the 37 bells when they play Bb tpts..The commercial players with their 7 to 10/2 diameter mouthpieces seem to go with 43 or 72 bells tpts...go figure!
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Rhondo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LadFree wrote:
Im sure that the 37 bell matches very well with a large diameter mouthpiece.
If you notice, legit players with their 1C mouthpieces seem to gravitate to the 37 bells when they play Bb tpts..The commercial players with their 7 to 10/2 diameter mouthpieces seem to go with 43 or 72 bells tpts...go figure!

Interesting.
I play a Corp. 5C mouthpiece on the 37. Tried a 1C and it really put the horn into overdrive, but only 6 months into comeback, it’s too early for me to switch, and I’m not so sure I need that much power anyway. With the 5C it’s still a monster!
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improver
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gentleman that said Bach represents a stale traditional etc. I think is wrong. Many of the most innovative and their own sound players in Europe like Eric Truffaz, Matias Eich etc. play strads. The strad is the most Chameleon horn on the market. If a great player has developed his own sound the Bach best transmits it. It's why many of the guys in Europe play them. Of course I just cant listen to tired American trumpet players and all that traditional bebop. I love listening to the European guys on Bachs. Great horn
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