Tuning

[mike ansberry]

I have been working on tuning for a little while. I have never had anyone complain about my intonation except for one summer many years ago. I was playing a show 5 days a week, 3 performances. I think the reason I had trouble there was that the lead player insisted that I had to play on a Bach 1. Man did that give me trouble. It was way to big for me. I did struggle with intonation and then lost my confidence and had all kinds of trouble.

I don't have trouble playing in tune with groups now. I audiate (sing my part in by brain while I play) and that really makes it work.

But I have been playing a little each night with the Tonal Energy tuner. I can play in tune with the drones, but I have to lip the pitch a bit. Top octave sharp, low octave flat. I imagine this is the same on all trumpets.

Recently I saw someone say that a longer throat will pull the octaves closer. So I have been looking for a couple of mouthpieces identical to what I play to experiment with.

Tonight I was playing the exercises with my Eclipse MR. Did the usual slight bending to play in tune with the drones. Then I picked up my Super Recording and played them again. The octaves were much closer together. I thought it was just that the SR played better in tune than my Eclipse.

But then I notices that I was using a mouthpiece that I had shaved the outer shank a little to make it fit my 1933 Conn 40B. So when I put it in the SR there was no gap. Hmmm. Tried it in my Eclipse. Same result. Tried the unshaved mouthpiece in the SR. The octaves were not close.

Any comments or ideas?
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[huntman10]

You mentioned gap, I think you solved the question. Some horns are much more gap sensitive from my recent obsession with testing Reeves sleeves. And different gaps for different horns.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[zaferis]

First of all if another player "insisted" that I play on a certain mouthpiece, other than my current setup, he/she would get a less than polite FO reply. The only place I would accept a suggestion/instruction like this is in a lesson from a master teacher.

Especially, if like with what you wrote, a Bach 1 (which is a huge piece). - I can only guess that when you write "lead" player you're talking "principal" in a legit setting. ??? Either way I'd likely tell him "bite me"
If he was suggesting or asking you to get a bigger/broader/warmer sound to help support him, this is NOT the way to do it.
If he handed me a mouthpiece and suggested I try it, to help in a specific manner, well, that's a whole different thing.

Resent story: I played a concert (orchestra) where the principal wanted to perform a couple of the selections on rotary valve trumpet with a very deep mouthpiece to facilitate playing softly, and a less aggressive sound - weeks before the first rehearsal he reached out to me and ASKED if I had equipment in hand, and had suggestions prepared if I didn't.

Yes, tuning is an ever-present, on-going task.. Every note we play, especially in ensembles, is being adjusted to those around us. To think "I'm in tune" because you were in tune with a tuner or piano previously is incomplete.

Yes, the mouthpiece - its design, and how it fits the trumpet can affect plays - tone, intonation, etc. That's one big reason many of us have a C trumpet mouthpiece with a more open throat - to get those octaves closer to our needs.

Gap, has an effect at some level, more apparent on some trumpets. Proper fit will maximize the potential.. improper fit can change the way the trumpet blows / feel, how notes slot, intonation, and other aspects.
Note some "vintage" trumpets are designed with no gap needed (like flugels and many cornets a smooth receiver to leadpipe transition). I don't think shaving a shank of a mouthpiece to make it fit is ever a good idea - you're changing the design of the mouthpiece more than you think.

Different trumpets often respond better with different mouthpieces - I don't use the same mouthpiece on my Bb, C, picc, etc. Even between my "commercial" and "legit" and various Bb trumpets. For tone, intonation, and maximizing the nature of each.

Tone & Tuning go hand in hand - if you're tone is bad it will be very challenging to play and sound like you're in tune.
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Andy Del]

If you are hearing what you need to play and there are no intonation issues, then you are good to go. Pitch is dynamic in performances, so what is good in the practice room may not be the way to handle yourself in a rehearsal or concert.

Back in another life, a colleague decided to place a tuner on his stand to see how the pitch went in the orchestra during performances… the results were, to say the least interesting.

Orchestra tuning was A=440. Except for the strings who got a slightly flatter A… and who then were at about 442 by the time tuning had finished. The start of the show - high strings with loads of harmonics was sharp. Way high, but to our ears, sounded fine. As the show progressed the pitch wandered up and down, but essentially was around A=444 most of the time.

The trend seemed to be brass pulled the pitch down, strings up and the winds? Changed from moment to moment.

No one was complaining about the ensemble’s pitch…
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so many horns, so few good notes...