Downsizing mouthpiece ID — could it be right for me?

[JazzyJP]

After an 8-year hiatus, I experimented with mouthpieces last August. I played a Bach 1/4C size last semester, enjoying the tone but lacking endurance. This semester, I split lead in the big band, played first trumpet in concert band, and soloed with my combo group. I tried other pieces, including Marcinkiewicz pieces. I remembered the comfort of the rim on the Bobby Shew #2 I played in 2016 and ordered a Marc 302 and 315 from the 300 series. The 315 worked well, though it was a bit large and lacked bite. I cleaned all my mouthpieces today, from Warburton 5MD to a GR67C* since I’m getting rid of them.

I decided to throw in the Warburton 5MD, and it’s the most comfortable rim I’ve ever tried. More so than the Marc which was surprising. It has a full, round sound with a warm quality, which I love, especially for small group jazz. Clearer tone compared to the Marc, probably because the alpha angle is higher, despite not having a bite to my lips.

However, after playing on it for a while, the sound really starts to thin out. I think this might be due to size changing, swelling, or my lips not adjusting properly.

I have summer to focus on exercises, technique, all that stuff. I’m hesitant to switch, but I know there’s no “best time.” I’ve got gigs this summer, but mostly have time to adjust.

Can anyone share their experiences and advice on what to expect and how to adjust to this change? Or should I not mess with it at all? It’s an immediate large improvement in tone quality, comfort, and articulation, just not for an extended time playing it.

Thanks a bunch for any suggestions you might have!

[JayKosta]

[CTrumpeter]

Jazzy,

I agree with Jay's above comment. Probably a wise idea to not make a huge jump down to a smaller mpc diameter right away. However, the improvements you felt are probably a sign that downsizing could be good!

As a student, I played on 1-1/4C size mouthpieces of varying brands, which in retrospect were definitely too big for me. I think that I became so used to "high-effort" playing that it became the norm, but I never considered how hard I was working. Eventually, this became too much for me when my playing demands increased; I downsized to a 1-1/2C, but I felt this was still a little too much work, so I went just a hair smaller and found something that works really well for me. Your mileage may vary, but trust your gut. If your playing is in generally good shape but you feel that you're just working way too hard, it most definitely could be your equipment choice. Efficiency > Effort

[JazzyJP]

[Brassnose]

I am only an amateur, so the usual warnings apply Seems to me that you *may* be on a combination that is a bit too large and too deep at the same time; after all a 1 1/4 C is quite the bucket compared to a more standard 3C.

My favorite Warburton top is the 5MC, just a bit shallower than the 5MD you already have. Might be worth a shot: nice and clear sound, good attacks, full sound, shallow enough for playing high over extended periods of time while definitely not being a lead piece. Combine it with a middle of the road backbore like the 5,6,7 and you may have a winner.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1997 Blessing XL cornet
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 K&H Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1978 King Silver Flair
1977 Conn 6B
*****
AR/ACB/Klier/Yamaha

[JWG]

I have and tried to play on a 1.25C, and I always felt like my embouchure just fell into that mouthpiece for reasons unknown.

I went to a 1.5c decades ago and I have not looked back. 1.5 rim has the correct diameter, contour, width, and alpha/beta angles to function as a great rim for me.

However, I discovered something interesting over the decades, variations on the 1.5 rim exist that dramatically change the feel of the rim. Mark Curry's 1.5 rims differ from the standard Bach 1.5 rims, and the Bach 1.5 Artisan rim also differs from the standard rim.

So, once you find a rim specification that feels really comfortable as the interface between you lips and the sound production chamber of the cup, stick with it.

Going from a 1.25 to a 1.5 or even a 3 rim can work. My daughter spend a lot of time flipping between a 3 rim and a 1.5 rim before she settled on the 1.5 rim. However, as you grow up and grow older, you may find yourself wanting to go a different direction due to changes in your body, e.g., increases in both body fat and muscle, bone growth, teeth alignment, et cetera, will all influence your future choices.

Thus, I would keep an open mind and experiment with incremental changes, remaining mindful of how all the different variations feel and charting or recording one's impressions.

One can often forget how various rims feel unless you write your impressions down as you experience them.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb with 1.5 Flip Oakes XT, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Flip Oakes C with 1.5 Flip Oakes TC & C mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[abontrumpet]

[JazzyJP]

[JazzyJP]

[abontrumpet]

[JazzyJP]

[stanton]

[llew93]

I've tried to make Bach 1.25 and 1.5 size mouthpieces work, but ultimately I did end up being more comfortable and consistent on a smaller size.

Around a Bach 3 or Yamaha 14 ID seems to work for me overall. I've also had good results with even smaller mouthpieces like a Yamaha 11 or a Bach 10.5 but these aren't as comfortable over long gigs and rehearsals. While a Bach 3 isn't small by any means, it's not as cavernous as a 1.25.

I would persevere with the 5MD. It's a very reasonable choice and a quality mouthpiece.

You do have to look at more than just the ID - rim, depth, throat, backbore, and so on all have a big effect on how a mouthpiece feels to play.

I used to hate the sound I got on a 3C or 14B4 until I acclimated. It takes time. I realised I was playing with a lot less effort and that helped me relax. The slightly shallower cup of these mouthpieces also gives me a little bit of support in the upper register as well. At first it felt stuffy and almost nasal, but I persevered as I found the rim a lot more palatable than others I've tried and it ended up being a good choice in the end.

[JazzyJP]