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Lead Trumpet Sound Concept



 
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holtonst200
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Joined: 09 Jan 2004
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Location: Syracuse, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is preferable for lead playing: a) a laser-like sound, or b) a really broad sound like you'd get on like a 1 1/2 B?

Let's have a vote, then. A or B and then justification for your choice. Which is more professionally acceptable?
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LeeC
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of a combination of the two leaning slightly to the laser side. If it's a lot of high note work you'll see few cats pulling it off with the large 1 & 1/2 Bach piece.

Bach sounds good in the practice or orchestral setting but doesn't sound so good in a live jazz setting. So I think anyway.
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mwhaa
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not a trumpet player myself but i believe that a lead trumpeter should be heard but not drown out the section. I also like a lead trumpeter that is a little brighter than the rest of the section
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just try to sound like Snooky Young and I think you will be OK.
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dbacon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bernie Glow, Gozzo, George Graham, Byron Stripling, Wayne Bergeron, Rick Baptist....
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Tom LeCompte
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I think it's important for a lead player - and indeed, the entire section - to be able to adapt their sound to be appropriate for the tune being played. No section or player should accept an "either/or" here.

Second, I have no problems with a trumpet section with a broad, brassy sound, even to the upper registers. I realize this is a minority view, and humbly suggest that a big, fat sound with a lot of punch will part the hair of any sax player foolish enough to get in our way every bit as much as a brilliant "laser" sound.

Third, there is an unfortunate trend among lead players to have a concept of sound that revolves around "lookit me! lookit me! lookit me!" rather than leading their section. This is especially true at the high school and (to a lesser extent) college level. All four players in the section have to let their own egos take a back seat to the needs of the section as a whole (not that the other three players have to let their egos take a back seat to the ego of the lead player). So the sound the lead player needs to shoot for is the sound that enables the section as a whole to sound as good as possible.

Finally, don't dismiss big mouthpieces. I got my 20D2d from a lead player who was getting rid of his "cheater" mouthpieces. I don't recall what he played normally, but it was huge. Bathtub? More like a swimming pool. If you wanted a laser-like sound, this guy could give it to you.

Cheers,

Tom
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mwhaa
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-07-31 18:03, Tom LeCompte wrote:
First, I think it's important for a lead player - and indeed, the entire section - to be able to adapt their sound to be appropriate for the tune being played. No section or player should accept an "either/or" here.

Second, I have no problems with a trumpet section with a broad, brassy sound, even to the upper registers. I realize this is a minority view, and humbly suggest that a big, fat sound with a lot of punch will part the hair of any sax player foolish enough to get in our way every bit as much as a brilliant "laser" sound.

Third, there is an unfortunate trend among lead players to have a concept of sound that revolves around "lookit me! lookit me! lookit me!" rather than leading their section. This is especially true at the high school and (to a lesser extent) college level. All four players in the section have to let their own egos take a back seat to the needs of the section as a whole (not that the other three players have to let their egos take a back seat to the ego of the lead player). So the sound the lead player needs to shoot for is the sound that enables the section as a whole to sound as good as possible.

Finally, don't dismiss big mouthpieces. I got my 20D2d from a lead player who was getting rid of his "cheater" mouthpieces. I don't recall what he played normally, but it was huge. Bathtub? More like a swimming pool. If you wanted a laser-like sound, this guy could give it to you.

Cheers,

Tom


in reply to the issue of in highschool players ego being a part of overpowering the section. It is true to a point. It also has to do with equipment sometimes. Our lead player played a bach strad silverplated(not sure which exact one) With an assymetric mouthpiece. Those mouthpieces make you extremely bright and project tremendously. Most times in Jazz Band you couldnt hear the rest of the section. But in the bigger settings like wind ensemble concert band you could hear every one else because we have a big trumpet section like 10-20 people. So it is not all equipment neither is it all the player.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy Maxwell's book "The First Trumpeter" is mandatory reading for the lead player.

[ This Message was edited by: Billy B on 2004-08-01 09:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Billy B on 2004-08-01 09:12 ]
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Kenny Roe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good suggestions here. I think the best advice has already been given by Billy B. and Dave Bacon, listen to great lead players, lots of them. Then form your own concepts from there. Snooky, Gozzo, Bernie are great. I might add Earl Gardner, Tony Gorruso, Tony Kadleck, Joe Mosello, Greg Gisbert, and Mike Ponella. The list could go on and on.

The answers are all there if we listen carefully.

Good Luck!
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a chance to speak with Tony K. in January. I quizzed him about his development as a player. He is self taught. He merely listened and copied.
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StewMuse
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experiences in playing and directing high school groups, and playing in college and professional bands (some much less "professional" than others), when the lead trumpet player is always outblowing the rest of the section, it's because the other section players really aren't getting it done. Some simply do not play well, while others can play their instruments, just without power. I've only played with one lead player (he's a horse, and a good one) who you could say actually needed to consistently scale things back. Then again, if everyone worked harder to keep up with him...
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good musicians use dynamics. They also know how to blend and balance, phrase, etc.. That's why there are so many high note players and so few lead players.
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AverageJoe
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen, Billy!

Different jobs require different leanings (bright/dark, broad/focused, etc...), but the great players in ALL genres have FLEXIBILITY in their sound and can blend, lead, and adjust to the demands of different styles.

Paul Poovey
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Tom LeCompte
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

when the lead trumpet player is always outblowing the rest of the section, it's because the other section players really aren't getting it done.


I think that covers something a little different from the concept of sound. The message that started this thread was really talking tone, not volume. (Or intensity, which is also of vital importance)

Cheers,

Tom
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DCB1
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the "trumpet" sound and not so much the bright cornet sound group.
I guess that would put in group A.
I agree that there HAS to be balance and dynamics! It is a must.... but when they call for a F or G at ff then get out of the way or get hurt.
As for the mouthpiece used... as long as you can play what is on the paper then so be it. I do think a shallower cup would be a great help though. If you have good chop control then you can play nice and mellow or lean and mean on the same equipment.
My thoughts....
Thanks
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