Cruise Ship

sean007r · Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2002 10:21 am Post subject:

So I've heard....

Most "players" start on a cruise ship during college.

1.) How tough are theses auditions?
2.) Can a "good" high schooler "cut" it?
3.) Are the "gigs" set-up as full time jobs or just "tours" and what are the time limits?
4.) How do you find what is available?
5.) What's the pay?

I'm thinking of taking a sabbatical from work this summer when the kids are with their mother. Assuming I could get the gig in the first place!
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Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

the questions....

1.) How tough are theses auditions?

...ain't so bad...sightreading is the most important tool.

2.) Can a "good" high schooler "cut" it?

.....Hmmmmm

3. Are the "gigs" set-up as full time jobs or just "tours" and what are the time limits?

....usually 6 month stints in my experience...maybe shorter these days..then if your a good boy you get asked back.

4.) How do you find what is available?

....contact ALL the cruise lines..there is http://www.proship.com in the states

5.) What's the pay?

....it's been too long for me to have any say on this one...don't spend it all in the bar or chasing the dancing girls....golly they are fit those girls ...they take a helluvalot of ketchin'!!! --hahahah!!!

GOOD LUCK!!! ...and maybe you'll get a cruise too...

Roddy o-iii<O
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sean007r · Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2002 9:13 pm Post subject:

Great link @ proships!

However, I feel, I am a long way from being ready according to there information.

And when I am "ready", is this the best choice to start my careere?
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Eric M. Parise · Regular Member Joined: 11 Dec 2001 Posts: 41

If it was good enough for Jaco...

sean007r · Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:27 pm Post subject:

Eric M. Parise · Regular Member Joined: 11 Dec 2001 Posts: 41

...Jaco Pastorius...from the anonymity of a cruise ship gig to heights few have dared to dream. We all need to know about Jaco.

James · Regular Member Joined: 06 Dec 2001 Posts: 15

Sean,

I have never done a cruise ship gig. I have had probably a hundred friends who have. From what I gather, the audition isn't too bad, a high schooler can do it...but you have to be mature/professional in your attitude as well as a pretty good player, the tours can vary. Sometimes you can just sub for a couple of weeks and get the feel of things. The money is usually around $400 a week. Your duties can vary depending on the line you work on. I have heard that Cunar, Royal Caribbean, Holland America, are the best and I have heard some horror stories coming from Carnival. Check into to it and make sure that all you have to do the ship is play and not other "duties".

sean007r · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:36 am Post subject:

James

Are you sure about the sub thing?

I'd love to try it and take a "vaction" at the same time.

This is assuming I'm good enough to get hired anyways!
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dwm1129 · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:55 am Post subject:

Most of the time the sub position goes to someone who has already played with the cruise line or agency. It's usually because someone gets sick or quits and they need someone right away like within a few days.

tim · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:10 am Post subject:

I've worked three 3-month contracts with 3 different lines and every gig is very different. Most of what you've heard is probably true..
proship.com is an agency I've worked with once and will be working for again this summer.
One of the issues with a "good high school" player doing the gig is that, at least in the USA, you need to be 21 to do the gig (as far as I know).
The pay varies from contract to ship to muso. The last gig I did had guys on $50 a day through to $87 a day, all on the same gig!! However, you do need to have a position to bargain from if you're going to try and ask for more money!
The usual contract is 6 months although if the agency or line like what they hear they can send you out for really short trips (2 weeks or so) and on great deals - passenger status with good $$$$!!!
I'd highly recommend working on a ship if you have no ties to land and want a chance to earn some cash and work on your playing, especially your reading.
Cheers,
Tim

sean007r · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 2:35 pm Post subject:

The reasons I'm asking is because I need to know if I'll ever be "good".
(long story so don't ask!)

I asked if a good High school player could cut it only because that was where I was when I stopped 16 years ago and is probably where I am today.

However, I don't have months to spare.
At best 2-4 weeks while my kids are spending the summer at their mothers house.

Assuming I was "good" enough to play 3rd without any solos, I think it would be a GREAT experience!!!!

However, is the $50/day cash or do they tax that too?
Is food included and/or limited?
I've heard you have to stay out of sight of the "real" people and stick 'ya below deck at all times. Therefore is there something to do when you "can't" play anymore, i.e. a Rec. room?
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tim · Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 2:55 pm Post subject:

Hope this helps...
Every gig I've been on has had either 1 trumpet or 2 only, with both guys being pretty responsible for playing lead and solos at times.
The pay for me has always been cash but I believe that for US citizens, some ships will tax your pay on board.
Your question about rec rooms is one of the huge downsides about cruise work. Some lines don't actively encourage crew in passenger areas, and there's not that much to do anyway. You had better be pretty good spending time with yourself or you'll get really bored. There is usually a crew library and you're usually allowed to go the cinema on board but you're not there to have a holiday - and if your band leader is a bit neurotic he'll remind you all the time of that fact.
If you want some idea of the standard talk to either the lines directly or one of the agents and have them send you some music so you can get an idea of the level of playing. By the way, if you can find a gig where you can play 3rd with no solos (and the money is OK) LET ME KNOW!!!!
Cheers and best of luck
Tim

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2002 10:38 am Post subject:

I spent 2 years out on ships and here is the short version (we'll see):

You will make more money NOT at Proship.

Everything pays just about the same, as low as $375 a week for the newbies up to $650 a week for the band leaders.

High school players generally don't have the maturity or the reading chops needed. Of a 15 hour work week (not including beer and women in the tropics) about 12 hours of it will be sight reading. The music isn't hard, you just have to be able to play with confidence, and not be afraid of the clam.

Things vary from line to line, from my experience, Carnival was the easiest to work for (relaxed, minimal dress code, lots of time on land, decent shows to play) and Royal Caribbean was the worst ( major dress code, limited time off ship, REALLY lame shows).

It's a good experience overall, although I wouldn't suggest 2 years, (I think I'm still crazy), so get out there and do it! You'll meet some cats that can play.

Most ships nowadays carry one trumpet, but you can generally find some of the larger ships that still use 2. The days of 3 trumpets is long gone on the open seas.

Hope this helps...
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sean007r · Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2002 8:32 pm Post subject:

Well I guess I'll just have to wait!!!

With my kids in school and a limited summer vaction, even if I were good engouh I guess there isn't enough time...

plus

if they are only using one trumpet it won't be me!!!
I'm years from a "lead" spot!
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Adrian Horn · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 6:02 am Post subject:

cybertrumpet · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 7:11 am Post subject:

I have to agree with Nycolas on this one. Proship, although they have the gigs dont have the REAL job description and you never know what you are getting into when you agree to take a contract. I was on the ships for years on many different lines with several agents and most of them cannot give you an accurate detailed description of the gig and you often end up working looong weeks for the same amount of money. I was on a proship contract and told that it would be a 25 hour work week, but it ended up to be more like 40 with all of the rehearsing and extra dance sets. In many cases when we would be at port and excited to get off the ship, the showband members could not, as we were rehearsing these shows that were written and arranged by some guy with a keyboard and a computer. (Opposed to a real arranger). Most of the shows that we played were very unmusical and in many cases, it felt more like pounding nails in the rain. So, with all of this in mind, I think that the ships are good experience for anyone, but BE SURE to get whatever agent that you get, to give you the goods on the gig. REMEMBER, you dont work for Proship or any other agent, they work for you...(but in most cases not. they like the commission though)
take it easy and hope this helps.

[ This Message was edited by: cybertrumpet on 2002-06-02 11:12 ]

dwm1129 · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 10:30 am Post subject:

If you're going to work on a ship, do the work you're self...find your own job, don't go threw an agency. Go to the cruise ships web site for more info, they all hire their own entertainment, there is no reason to have 12% taken out of your check each week and get screwed around with....not that I'm bitter or anything.

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 11:19 am Post subject:

35-40 hours a week? I wouldn't have been out there so long if it had been like that. By the end I was only making $550 a week, and I always looked at it as a vacation. The bread would have to be a lot better, "pounding nails in the rain" is hell.

I agree, you should definately find your own gig out there. Robert King is the guy at Carnival, and he spent like 3 years as a lead alto player on the bands, so he knows what's up. You can find the Carnival Entertainment 800# on the website... http://www.carnival.com
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cybertrumpet · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 1:12 pm Post subject:

yup and the worst part of it all were those terrible arrangements. I hate it when the "musical director" buys a laptop and a copy of finale and sibelius and suddenly they think that they are pro arrangers. We had this one guy who would bring in these "arrangements" that he did in the cabin that were total musical dogs. On top of that, because he was the boss, we had to play them and make them sound good with him leering at us from the piano. The shows were also written very poorly and again, another case of a guy with a computer thinking that he has the ability to arrange just because a computer "made it so easy." They really do put the cart before the horse and should learn how to arrange properly for that kind of band, as quite often, the players in the group end up having to play constantly thru the show, which only makes matters worse. I am amazed that an agent could ask for 12% and be so uninformed about the gig and the number of hours that are involved. I personally would never go thru proship again and will take your advice on the last post if I want to go back out there......
Thanks!

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2002 7:43 pm Post subject:

Yeah, those MDs can be hell. But, I'll do you one better....

I worked on a ship where the Cruise Director (who shall remain nameless, cuz he's a pretty nice guy overall) started on cruise ships as a 3rd trumpet player in the band. One of those guys that could get around on the horn, and could squeeze out a squeeky double Q just for kicks. Anyway, a couple of years of not playing his horn paired with the band being short a 2nd trumpet player made for a downright hateful existence.

Some of the arrangements that happen out there are pretty damn good, but most of them, unfortunately, are not.

I would think that the MD/Composer/Arranger sickness isn't discriminate about what cruise line it's on. Since on most ships, the showband leader is the Musical Director for the whole ship, their given a lot of license to make decisions on their own. When you get a 22 year old kid running the music scene because he was the only one they could find to take on that much responsiblity for that little bread, sometimes poor decisions happen.... it's no one's fault, its the law of averages...

However, I have had plenty of wonderful and meaningful experiences on a ship. Plus I got my butt whipped a few times, and theirs always somewhere to practice, whenever the moment strikes you. (If you end up on a ship, remember: Crew bar, then practice at 4am = not productive.)
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