Playing over trombones

[funkymonkey]

I've been hearing this often in high school jazz band that the trumpets "blast" into the ears of the trombones.. the setup we use at my school is trombones sitting and trumpets standing behind.. are there any ways to have the sound project but without straining the back or the neck to point overly upwards?

[maynardwannabe]

I hear that no matter who I sit behind, no matter how I'm facing. I think the trombones just can't stand hearing how much better the trumpets are. If its really that big of a problem for them, get the trombones lower chairs. That may not be much help, but that's basically what they'll have to do, unless your conductor is up to changing the whole layout of the band.

[trjeam]

No matter who you sit behind someone is always going to complain and say "trumpets are too loud" and it's funny because trumpets are usually at the back with the percussion behind them and we have listen to the set player or the snare drummer beating the hell out of drums. But we never say anything.

But in our jazz band (county) the trombones seem to take the screaming high notes quite well. They hardly complain... In matter of fact I have never heard them complain. One of the reasons they probably don't is because they know that some of the parts call for beign loud and allot of the parts call for beign soft and as brass players they probably know that we are trying to be soft. But one of the things we for performances, the trumpet section is usually at the back but we are like a couple of steps higher then the rest of the band so like we play over the band or something like that.. The point is that we don't play in the ears of trombone players or people infront of us.

[ChopsMcgraw]

A couple of Bone players up here have resorted to stuffing plugs in their ears. They didn't use them in the last couple of rehearsals (Mcneely and Schneider Charts) but they do when we're playing the typical Big Band charts. I'd imagine it gets pretty loud out front.


ChopsMcgraw

[Yoinks]

Yes, actually severe hearing damage is a real issue to trumpet players, and even more so to the people that get to sit in front of us. It is almost criminal what we do to the saxes and trombones. However, that is just the way it is, and the way it will likely be for a while. Some things you just can't wear ear plugs for.

[trickg]

I once got to hear Maynard Ferguson in a small jazz club where I was sitting right up front, about 5 feet from him. Painful, but awesome at the same time. Imagine what it must have been like to be trombonist that had to be in front of him during his years playing lead in big bands.

When I was an Army Bandsman, even though it was a pain to take them to every gig, we brought big wide risers for the trumpet section to stand on. This helped quite a bit. Unfortunately, this isn't going to work in every situation for every band because 1.) not everyone has risers and 2.) even if you have them, you may not have the means to transport them.

_________________
Patrick Gleason

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2002-05-01 08:40 ]

[tom turner]

Ah . . . tradition!

Trumpets were in the back long in the past (before using sound reinforcement for every instrument) in order for the band to be better BALANCED on a gig.

The woodwinds were up front so they could be heard properly. Different height risers for both the trumpet and trombones meant the trombones could also play a little more softer and sound more beautiful too.

There's really never a good reason to blast . . . at any level of musical performance. All brass instruments sound richer and fuller when not overblown. Of all instruments in a jazz band the trumpet is loudest too.

If we don't sound as good, if we don't last as long, and if the musical blend of the group suffers . . . why do trumpet players overblow and ruin the overall sound of the group?

Truthfully . . . my "problem" was a common one with trumpeters . . . ego. It took years to fight that problem. Now I just want to make the best music I can. Sorry all you deaf trombonists out there!

Food for thought . . . from a former "master-blaster!"

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[ This Message was edited by: tom turner on 2002-05-01 21:02 ]

[Warbird]

I agree with all of the past posts. There is always someone that is complaining. Our trombones got the hormones of a dog in heat, so they never complain that we are too loud...we complain of them covering us up!!! Anyways, I agree with the second post that either they can get lower chairs or get over it or something cuz in jazz, the sound is suppose to be top-heavy, therefore, more trumpet then trombone unless the trombone has a melody, solo, etc...

In the end it comes down to this...trumpets wins.

In Christ,
Joseph N. Pack
_________________
Holton MF ST307 -Marc Bobby Shew 1E10.3
Bach Strad. Mo 43 - Bach 1X
1929 Conn. - Bach 1X
1935 H. N. White Co. Cornet - Denis Wick 4B

[macleod13]

What we do in my band is, when we don't have risers, the trumpets stand on chairs... I think it works well.
_________________
Brian.

[Strawdoggy]

The trombones knew what the gig was when they took it. If you are playing with a good sound and in tune, they usually don't complain too much.

Q: What do you call a trombone player with a cell phone in his gig bag?



A: An optimist.

[Nicholas Dyson]

introduce your big band trombone section to the viola section in the local symphony. They can cry together.
_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada

[DaveH]

IMO, some players simply play too loud all the time.I'm not sure if it is an ego or personality thing or what.As I make that comment,a particular player that I had occasion to play beside for a few years comes to mind. I haven't seen or played with that player for several years now,but I have heard from those who have that this player is suffereing from a general decline in ability due to overblowing.The interesting thing about it is that this player should know better. Not an inexperienced person;rather,lots of training,education in music ,and experience - but plays too loud all the time. Actually became the subject of joking at times.
I just think that excessive volume is unnecessary and produces unmusical results......

[The General]

Great topic! Good to see it come back to the top of the list.

Leon Merian was at ITG, in 2000, and spoke about having to play over the "electronics". In his hay-day, everything was acoustic. Somehow, balance was achieved.

Each Section in a Big Band has a Lead Player. It's the Lead Player's responsibility to be musical, and to Lead his section. When I Lead my Big Band, I tell all of the Players that if they can't hear their Lead Player, that they are playing too loudly. It's amazing to hear instant balance!

Music has to have contrast, in order to have an effect on the audience. Playing musically is the only way to accomplish that. With lower "lows", the "highs" are much easier. Be careful, because endurance might creep into the picture, and there won't be anything to complain about in the third or fourth set.

I've heard a couple of great Trombone players lately, and I would be glad that they were sitting in front of me!
_________________
Bruce Lee - www.NorthernBrass.com - (603) 421-9178

... "Dedicated to the Comeback Trumpet Player"

[Vessehune]

You can always do what we did in my community college. We used a "Kenton" setup. It like a flattend horse shoe. The trumpets on the bottom of the shoe with the saxes and trombones makeing up the sides. The rhythm section smack dab in the middle. This way no one is playing into someone's head, and it really opens up the sound of the band. I hope this is clear enough I could draw the idea, but trying to describe it in words is tough!!! I have a picture of it in one of my Kenton albums, but I can't remember which one. If I find it I'll post the album name so others can see it as well.

[Nicholas Dyson]

That flattened horseshoe set up is/was used by Rob McConnell also.....

_________________
Nick Dyson
Seattle, Washington
"...many recording sessions are 98% boredom, 2% terror. If you were in the trumpet section for these dates, reverse those figures."
-Jeff Haskell, re: the Sept. '56 sessions for MF's 'Birdland Dreamband'

[ This Message was edited by: Nicholas Dyson on 2002-06-20 15:19 ]

[Nicholas Dyson]

That flattened horseshoe set up is/was used by Rob McConnell also....
_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada