1st E above the staff

[Jam_Man_Tpt]

Can anyone tell me why it is so much easier to play a high F than a High E. This may sound crazy because F is higher than E, but really it isn't. It is often i have to hit a High E and hit a High F in stead.

Thanks,
Ben Love

[bachstrad72]

What kind of trumpet do you play? If you play a Bach or a Bach style trumpet High E, Double A and Double B are harder to play than some notes over them, I think it has to do with the bell shape. Other brands of trumpet have similar problems with different notes

[Jam_Man_Tpt]

I play on a King Silver Flair. Double B!!!!!!! There is no way I can hit that. I can only go to a Double G on a good day.

Thanks
Ben Love

[PC]

Have you tried the E with 1-2 fingering? I find it much easier to get it to sizzle that way than open (I think that on most trps open lies slightly flat). Piano chromatic scales from low C or lower up to there or abouts and back again are good to give you a feel of the closeness of these high notes, in terms of necessary lip motion or adjustment. Also, do not repeat too much attempts at these notes when fatigue or misses set in, as you are beginning to tweak your lips unnaturally and inefficiently at that point (at least I know I am when I keep persisting against good sense). In addition, you begin to practise (or is it practice? Never know) and make permanent the failed notes instead of the correct feel and sound.

Hope that makes minimal sense,
Pierre.

[Emb_Enh]

Alternate fingerings above High C

Hiya! the numbers in brackets are my other favoured alternatives for ease of operation and tuning.....

If the music requires a high passage at speed then I use normal fingerings in a fast run.

The make / model Tpt. you play makes a difference too of course, as does mpc / chop method and physiology. And also the combination of all these things.

However for those that are interested in a starting point of discovery....

...Use the bracketed ones to lip trill/shake on! [easier]

C3 fingers = 0 [23] [2 leger lines, High C]
C# fingers = 12
D fingers = 1 [13]
Eb fingers = 23
E fingers = 12
F fingers = 1 [13]
F# fingers = 2 [123]
G fingers = 13 [0]
Ab fingers = 23
A fingers = 3 [1] [123] [12]
Bb fingers = 23 [1]
B fingers = 23 [2]
C4 fingers = 23 [0] = Double high C
C# fingers = 12
D fingers = 1

------ as is on up......

Mouthpiece pressure and a less than focussed airflow stops many players at around G3 [high G]

Roddy o-iii<O
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
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[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[chrislb98]

I've played several newer bach strads and the E for me is generally easier than the F. The hardest notes on those horns seem to be the F (easy to get to, hard to hold steady), double A (very very hard) and double Bb.

The double B seems to be the easiest of the notes above high G and much easier than double C. This is on a 37 ML strad.

[trickg]

I'm in the same boat as JamManTpt with the E. I almost always have a hard time with it, however, if I'm having trouble with the E, I don't have problems with the F. If I'm nailing the E, I'm splattering the F all over the place.

It might be a characteristic of the Bach horn that I play, then again, it might just be me.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[_bugleboy]

Ben,

I believe that what you're experiencing is something that has to do with the harmonic characteristics of the horn. Why, I don't know. But trumpet players usually find the first open E (above the tuning C) to be the first of these notes, due to harmonic characteristics, that give a little more resistance than others. The A on top of the staff is another one, and the A an octave above that (for those who get there) can be the worst one.

But for most players the E over high C is awkward. It is usually true that the F above is easier and the F# also. I don't think alternate fingerings are going to help much if you don't have the muscle balance developed that is necessary to play these notes easily. If the balance is there you'll be able to play the notes with any fingerings. So, what to do?

To get the E easily, you need to be relaxed with an easy air flow. Try playing some long tones on the leadpipe (the lowest note that slots, should be about your low E) about mp to mf for 2-3 minutes. Then check out the high E. Also practicing pedal exercises as in the Caruso or Smiley books will build your high range in general and make the high E start behaving better for you.

Remember, it's the balance of all the moving parts, not muscle strength, that allows these notes to be played easily (or at all). The muscles are doing a balancing act, and as you go higher the gauge of the wire gets smaller.

Good luck!

[Bach 1 1/2C Man]

My range is about A E over high C off the staff for right now what can I do to get to C4 at least G. But I realy like what Charles Ramond said pedal tones help build those musle to play high notes because its spose to be hearder to play down there. Don't forget buzz the mouthpiece before playing the horn.then play pedal tone then scales as long tones for about 2-3 5 minutes max each that will really help you ok

musically yours,
Bach 1 1/2C Man

[ This Message was edited by: Bach 1 1/2C Man on 2002-06-19 08:55 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Bach 1 1/2C Man on 2002-06-19 08:55 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Bach 1 1/2C Man on 2002-06-19 08:56 ]

[Schilkewilkie]

Through my experience, E over high C is very difficult to not to get, but to produce. It must be a certain wavelength that does not fair well on any trumpet. It's odd...you know the strength is there, but you end up playing a strong high F, or an open D...it's frustrating. I've found that one must use a TON of controlled air to play a decent high E. THere are only two men I've heard that can play strong high E's without cracking them (too much...)...Faddis and Ferguson, and if you listen to the second Macarthur Park solo he does (the second solo that goes to double A, after the solo section), even the Boss himself cracks the last high E before the double A.
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"Remember something...no one controls your life but you. I learned that in Vietnam." ---my grandfather

[Emb_Enh]

Pedals....

Bud Brisbois never believed that pedal tones were any good for anyone interested in developing a good high register and said so.

There are no pedal exercises in or mentioned in the text of the Cat Anderson book either.

Arturo Sandoval says:

"Never try to adopt a faulty position when playing pedal tones. By faulty position I mean an embouchure that would never be used throughout the general range of the instrument"

I guess that they may be a possible way to gain a soft center...but there are easier ways to attain that with less chance of going wrong...however...if you must try them keep both lips inside the mpc as Arturo suggests.

It's up to you to experiment and figure it out for yourself!
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Regards, Roddy o-iii RoddyTpt@aol.com

"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

[tom turner]

Hi,

It sounds like you have finally reached the place in your development where the horn is beginning to hold you back. The E shouldn't be any easier, or harder to play than the F.

Assuming your horn is clean, straight and non-dented, I'd first recommend a great valve alignment job to get the valves in alignment Valve alignment felts compress within two years to go "out of spec," and make the valves become progressively more out of alignment. Since the alignment problems creep in so slowly, we don't notice it.

Gosh, many players NEVER think to change their felts and don't know what they are missing!!! If this fails to solve the problem its time to look for another horn.

The Wild Thing trumpet is remarkable in its ability to have the same feel (or "blow") on each note, both ascending and decending throughout its ENTIRE range--with each note feeling like the "step" it is "sitting" on is the exact same size and height as the one above and below it. This takes a lot of work out of playing the horn and allows a player to play with greater confidence and endurance.

Also, it slots perfectly to triple C--meaning that it LOCKS onto each pitch with surety yet still has perfect flexibility when you bend notes or slur . . . again, something not found on most horns. On most horns one either has trouble "locking" onto certain high notes . . . or one has trouble bending those notes. Rare are the horns that split the compromise correctly on any, or all notes!

Another wonderful horn noted for its great feeling/performing upper register is the Callet Jazz (and identical--except in trim--Symphonique model labeled to appeal to legit players) and lots of other folks love the Callet Superchops horn. The new Lawler 26B is very nice too, I've heard, and there are a VERY few other horns with outstanding playing charecteristics--mostly other custom, hand-tweaked horns or specific, individual horns picked out by discerning players who can tell the difference.

Like a fine NASCAR racing engine builder, there are a few craftsmen out there that can take a horn and make 'em perform in the areas that serious players can appreciate. For the larger, more lucrative market of less demanding users, there's everything else.

Good luck in your development as a player!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner