monotone student

[derekph]

I have a student who for whatever reason doesn't seem to be able to change pitch when she sings. She can accurately recognize change in pitch when I sing, but changing her pitch when she sings is impossible (well, nothing's IMpossible, but). Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone out there has had this same problem and might have solved it so that you could give me some suggestions. It gets a bit fustrating in the lesson room sometimes. I know there's a way. I won't accept that some people can sing and some can't.

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 15:10 ]

[derekph]

I actually was using syllables. I had her sing "ee" for high and "oh" to go low, but she just stays monotone when she says these syllables. To many people it's second nature to be able to sing, but for some it's hard. Whistling is out of the question.

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 15:11 ]

[pair of kings]

she may not be used to singing. She may hear the pitches and not be able to find them with her voice. try getting her to sing sound effect type stuff - sirens or fireworks, whatever you can think to rise and fall in pitch over wide range to kind of get extremes of going high and low. she could be a liitle shy about it and not really be trying if she already thinks it's something she can't do. I just make it a practice to sing everything through the first time especially the very young ones. Not serious singing - just to get the melody line. And I make them sing along with me - if they are off pitch I don't mention it - and the more you do it over a period of time they will start to find their voice.
hope that isn't too stupid

[Erin C]

Sorry Dave, I have to do this even though I know it's petty... but I'm a singer... and the movement of the tongue does not have anything to do with the change in pitch when you sing. Whistling, absolutely, but singing it's all about changing the vocal cords and keeping your mouth as still as is possible for you to do while singing words.

The *last* thing I want to do is start a fight over this but I couldn't let it go... I'm a soprano and a trumpet player (interesting combination... lol) what did you expect?

Does your student talk in a monotone as well? And does she sing the same pitch each lesson, like the monotone is always an F, or is is sometimes a G or E or something? And if she were to sing you a pop tune from the radio like the Backtreet Boys or something of her choice, would it be a monotone as well or would she get the melody then? It might be something to do with nerves in the lesson The piano idea is good with trying to match the pitch, and also see if she can do a siren or scoop from as low as she can make her voice to as high as she can make her voice, and vice versa, and work from there.

Erin -iii<
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[derekph]

Thanks Erin for your suggestions and advice. I've been doing the scooping thing and demonstrating the siren for her, but she can't duplicate it, nor can she join me in the fun. I'll have to check whether she's singing one particular note or whether it's just a favorite of her's for that minute or so. She kind of does speak monotone and I do think much of it has to do with nerves. A couple lessons ago she came in with sunglasses and a hat on. I'm hoping that she begins to feel a bit more comfortable the more lessons we have; her being nervous is tough on both of us. Not that I don't understand. I was that nervous person at one point in my life as well. We'll see.

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 15:11 ]

[Erin C]

[trickg]

Erin,

Dilemas dilemas. What would you/do you choose to do on "Let the Bright Seraphim"? Do you sing the soprano part or play the trumpet part?

Just curious.
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[Erin C]

[Strawdoggy]

Sounds like the student can hear it, but just can't do it yet.

I think what Quad C is trying to get at is the use of VOWELS, not syllables. That could help get her going in the right direction.

The tongue itself has little to do with pitch vocally. Sing any vowel and wiggle your tongue any which way - it will only change the tone, but not the pitch. Going from Aaa to Eee might help. As trumpet players, we automatically go up in pitch when we sing those two vowels as our tongue lifts. A "monotone" probably won't at first.

I run across students like this sometimes as well. I would be interested in seeing what others have to say.

Steve

[Strawdoggy]

Quad,

I still don't follow you. I understand the problem to be that the student can hear the pitches, but cannot change them vocally. To have them sing a one octave scale probably isn't going to happen if they can't even go from do to re (or to anything else for that matter). In all the voice lessons I've taken, my teachers never mentioned using the tongue to change pitch. It is only used for diction. They all advised me to "keep it out of the way" to avoid blocking projection. Of course, if the tongue is not used at all, the student won't be able to sing anything with lyrics. But the problem mentioned here is that the student can't change pitch, and sings everything (including text) in a monotone.

The more I think about this subject, the more I think this is a matter of comfort/nerves that will work itself out. Even people who are tone deaf can change pitch, albeit "off".

My two cents worth.

Steve

[Strawdoggy]

Actually, after looking at my last post, I would assume that the student is a TRUMPET PLAYER (?) and that the teacher is giving trumpet lessons and having her sing pitches on La or Da or whatever. However, I still hold to the statement that the tongue level is not what will get her to change pitch vocally.

In fact, I just did a little experiment changing lip formation going from AY - AH - OOH and the pitch doesn't change -just the tone and vowell.

My younger son of 13 is looking at me funny. I think I better sign off now.

Steve

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 15:12 ]

[pair of kings]

[ This Message was edited by: pair of kings on 2002-08-30 10:53 ]