Buzzing a la Reinhardt

spanky · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 535

i guess that's what i get for opening my big mouth.

Pops · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:09 am Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 11:00 ]

walter · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:27 am Post subject:

Hey Pops- Welcome. Your reputation preceeds you.

However, when I read ...

Pops · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:04 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 11:01 ]

DSR · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:24 pm Post subject:

Quote "I'm FOR lip buzzing. But only if you buzz like you play. "

What about upstream players? They can derive many benefits from limited free lip buzzing yet their buzzing embouchure is quite different than their playing embouchure...namely the downward airstream instead of the upward airstream.

-Brendan

Pops · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:05 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 11:01 ]

DSR · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:17 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: DSR on 2002-10-17 00:33 ]

BeboppinFool · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:18 pm Post subject:

hairy james · Regular Member Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 93

Pops,

The reason that Doc wanted us to always buzz with the air going downstream was because he wanted that lower lip in and over the lower teeth regardless of your type ( upsteam or downstream). Buzzing with the air going up doesn't allow the lower lip to roll in correctly.

I have a question for you, it is common knowlage that you are a devoted student of the late Don Jacoby. You stated in a post on this forum that an "Embouchure shouldn't have to move a great deal to play a piece of music." If this is the case then why does Mr.Jacoby advocate dropping the jaw and tilting the horn up at the celing to play the low register?

There are pictures in his book "Jake's Method" of where the horn should be pointing for the middle, low and high register. Those pictures show a very radical movement. If one were to play the octave drills in the Schlossberg book that way they would look more like a conductor and less like a trumpet player!

Reinhardt would never have allowed you to drop your jaw and point the horn up for low notes. He told me to use my pivot and muscular relaxation to play the low register. Dropping the jaw for low notes is a "compression killer" and brings on "embouchure distortion" under the rim of the mouthpiece.

I've been on your web site and I must tell you that I was very impressed. A lot of what you say sounds very "Reinhardt like", so I was wondering if you had ever studied with Doc? Just curious. It's also nice to know that you are anti-pedal tone. You know, pretty much everything you said about buzzing (except buzzing with the air going up ) was right on the money. And as far as your pivot being more internal, well Doc used to say that once the pivot was mastered you would need a magnifying glass to see it on most players. Sounds like you're on the right track.

I hope to hear from you again on this forum.

Chris

PC · Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:43 am Post subject:

Chris,

I was about to stop lip buzzing as I was feeling my lower lip curl on my lower teeth thinking that was lip distortion people warn about. At the same time, my accuracy and endurance playing the trumpet had never improved so quickly in the past, so I thought that maybe something is right after all. I am comforted to read here that in DSR's system, this appears to be a good lip positioning, if we are writing about the same thing.

I feel that this lower lip positioning comes about strongly when buzzing into higher range, so I'm a little surprised Doc didn't advocate pushing the limits upwards; it is my experience that when the lips are where they should, you get a sound, when something is wrong, you get nothing; therefore, I don't see bad habits developing here. One thing you mentioned before, is that lip buzzing is extremely tiring, so maybe that is the main reason not to engage in extended lip practice before hitting the trumpet?

I now understand more the "why" behind the no-no of low note lip buzzing, although it seems to me that once you have attained sufficient lip development, going for low notes can actually give you the relaxed feeling required WITHOUT having to lower the jaw. But maybe that benefit is slight compared with the risk of wrong lip manipulation (i.e. pursing out), in DSR's view.

Regards,
Pierre

hairy james · Regular Member Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 93

Pierre,

Doc never said that you shouldn't try to buzz high, only that very few people could ever buzz as high as they could play. He didn't want you to be dissapointed if your trumpet range was high 'G' and you could only buzz to say a 'A' or 'Bb' under high 'C'. So by all means try to push it "range wise" when buzzing. Just make sure that you don't smile ( pull your corners back towards your ears ) when buzzing high.

Good luck,
Chris

[ This Message was edited by: hairy james on 2002-10-17 14:16 ]

PC · Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:42 am Post subject:

Thanks chris,

Full agreement here on the Smile no-no!!

Pierre.

hairy james · Regular Member Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 93

Pops'

I've been waiting for you to adress my question about Don Jocoby's thought's on jaw position. If you haven't read my question yet, it's posted under this topic "Buzzing a la Reinhardt" right after your posts about buzzing, my post was dated 10-17-02.

Looking foward to hearing from you.
Chris

[ This Message was edited by: hairy james on 2002-10-18 11:42 ]

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:54 am Post subject:

Pops · Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:43 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 11:02 ]

BeboppinFool · Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:04 am Post subject:

Pops · Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:38 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 11:02 ]

bgibson · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Sep 2002 Posts: 211

Rich and everyone;
Sorry for being late on this post, just got back and am still having jet lag.
Doc mentioned that there were 2 people that had studied with him that could buzz as high as they could play. Warren Covington was one of them, I heard Warren do this when I studied with him. I cannot remember who else Doc mentioned that could buzz as high as they could play.
I also recall Doc talking about mouthpiece buzzing as a correctional procedure for swelling. Buzzing on the next largest size mouthpiece for a few minutes to help reduce swelling, in other words tpt players buzz on a Trombone mouthpiece, Trombonists use aTuba mouthpiece.
WEG