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OCTA-C
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 759
Location: Kenmore, N.Y.
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 Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Stumbled across the "ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS for JAZZ (ensemble)" book the other day. My 11y.o. plays trombone and was requested by his private teacher to pick-up this book which, by the way, is published by HAL LEONARD. What a great little book! It starts you at the very basics for someone who has no experience and/or knowledge of Jazz at all and pretty well goes step by step through the progressions- musically as well as thinking wise. Every few little sections will have a little anecdote as to why certain Jazz artists played certain phrases the way they did. It comes with two "listen and play along" accomp. CD's. It can be used for individual instruction as well as ensemble.
Check it out! FWIW
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Jay S.
"May the good sound be yours!"
"Always remember to blow into the proper end of the horn!"-circa. 1900 (Harry Gardoon) |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:13 am Post subject: |
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On 2002-10-31 23:18, OCTA-C wrote:
It comes with two "listen and play along" accomp. CD's.
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Whenever kids come up to me wanting to learn to improvise jazz, they invariably ask me "What book should I buy?"
I tell them to buy recordings instead of books (unless they want to play duets, of course) because jazz is an aural art form. There is no substitute on earth for listening to thousands of hours of the greats (Louis Armstrong, Bix Beiderbecke, Count Basie, Charlie Parker, Clifford Brown, etc.). Once a student has been listening to jazz for those thousands of hours, sure, maybe then grab a book.
I've heard more lousy solos by guys who might know how to play the "correct" scale for the chord(s) at hand, but they aren't playing jazz.
Don't buy a book . . . buy a bunch of recordings of the greats and listen to them as many hours a day as you possibly can. And the 2 CDs you get with the book in the above post won't really instruct students about the language of jazz the way a CD with Charlie Parker or Freddie Hubbard will.
Rich
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OCTA-C
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 759
Location: Kenmore, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Very, very true Rich! But you must realize that the book is intended for young or really very young musicians. You can play as many records, CDs, tapes, etc. for young musicians all you want and still get that "doe-eyes in the headlights" stare from most of them even when you explain the song or music. Hell, you can take experienced pros who have listened to thousands of hours of jazz by the greats and have gone through every Abersold book in the series and still stink! Who is to judge?! You're talking about 10, 11, and 12y.o.'s who have trouble remembering their instruments for school! Kids, as well as adults, need guidance and instruction. They need to know what to look and listen for! At least for the very, very basics. Then, they can go and listen to any artist or song they want to and put into practice what they've learned. And, besides, the book is also made for ensemble usage so if several different instruments have the same book, they can play passages together. And the accomp. CDs basic guiding tools. FWIW!
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Jay S.
"May the good sound be yours!"
"Always remember to blow into the proper end of the horn!"-circa. 1900 (Harry Gardoon) |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-11-02 14:34, OCTA-C wrote:
You're talking about 10, 11, and 12y.o.'s who have trouble remembering their instruments for school!
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I guess my point is this: I compare learning to talk with learning to "speak" the jazz vocabulary . . . we've been listening to people speak for 6 or more years before we ever get any formal instruction in it. And if we only had formal instruction without those 6 or more years of listening to people speak, our speech would probably stink.
When we put in the hours (and years) of listening, then we're really ready to improve our speech, and we have a solid foundation to build on.
Rich
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Liad Bar-EL
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Jerusalem
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Hey you guys, pay attention to this!!
You all want some books that has really got the jazz put together and really fun to play? Try out Rich Willey's I'd Rather Be Boppin (24 Bop Duets) and the other one which is just a riot called HomeCookin' Fer Young 'Uns (24 Dixie Jazz Duets).
All the changes are well marked, all measures numbered, excellent stationary, easy to read and just well put together all together.
Rich, you did a wonderful job and I would recommend these books for anyone who is interested in learning jazz and to those who are already playing jazz.
Excellent job and thanks buddy, |
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SHS_Trumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Posts: 1809
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2002 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I studied with the the guy who wrote that essential elements jazz book. Mike stienel, he was a great jazz payer but somewhat of an ass, at least to me.
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Andrew Fowler
MYNWA
"90% of trumpet music is below high C" |
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tryingtolivethelife
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 300
Location: St. Albert AB
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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You know, I listen to jazz exclusivley. I can sing hundreds of solo, I have so many great recordings "memorized" in this way. I'm a decent soloist, but every time I do a transcription I see what is really being played. Over what chord and in what order, then I really learn whats happening. I really have trouble geting the Bop vocabulary under my fingers, I know what scales and how to spell chords, but still... it seems that listening doesn't acomplish everything. And I think the omni book was a really valueable investment.
Just my 8 cents worth,
Charlie |
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Liad Bar-EL
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Jerusalem
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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On 2002-11-03 10:08, SHS_Trumpet wrote:
I studied with the the guy who wrote that essential elements jazz book. Mike stienel, he was a great jazz payer but somewhat of an ass, at least to me.
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I don't know Mike Stienel and even if I did, I would say the same thing to you for I think it is unfair to Mike and to you especially that you have said this about him on an international information sharing forum. Even if he treated you like an ass, do you think that by you relating this type of information internationally doesn't make you less of one? Can you say that you have ALWAYS put 100% effort into your studies with him?
SHS_Trumpet, I am not trying to berate you in public for nothing but hope that you and others will treat and speak of others the same way you would like to be treated and spoken of by others.
Being that you studied with Mike, you are then our resource person on his Essential Elements Jazz Book. I am very interested in knowing what those Essential Elements are. Do they include expressions, feelings, musicality or whatever term that means the same things? During your lessons with Mike, did he ever mention how to express yourself more in your playing and what to do in this regard so that it would happen? When you heard him play, did you get any feelings? Did you get the same feelings when he would play the same music again?
In your opinion and from your experience with Mike, what is the most important thing you learned from him?
Thanks much for your information. |
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