Best horn for classical

Ralph · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject:

This maybe somewhat of a ridiculous question, but here goes anyway. Any opinions on what would be the best trumpet for chamber music and classical solos? Not so much the brand but rather the horn specs. I'm interested in the specific sound produced by smaller rather than large bore instruments. Either b flat or C trumpet, it doesn't matter. Not so much for the higher pitched horns. For example, would a ML bore C trumpet give a preferable sound over an L bore? If Bachs are named, which bell flared would be best? I know this comes down to personal tastes. I sort of like the cornet for classical sound. My question is more dircted toward the more traditional, penetration tone rather than a big symphonic sound.

tcutrpt · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 1:14 pm Post subject:

For solo works, a lot of it comes down to personal taste and what you want to sound like. It isn't necessary to blend so you aren't restricted to sounding a certain way. It is amazing the difference in sound from one brand to another. If you're looking for that truly unique solo sound, look into the hand made horns like Blackburn or Monette. They seem to produce a sound that the mass made horns don't get. As far as projection goes, my Bach 229 Bell works great to project to the back of the auditorium.

Matt

Bartok · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Nov 2002 Posts: 456

I play a bach LB-229/25H C trumpet. Works the best for me in an orchestra. If I weren't an orchestral player and did a lot of soloing, the 239 bell is great. Not as harsh and focused as the 229. A little wider, softer tone. Also, I'd probably use a different leadpipe too. Maybe a 25A. I've played on some bach medium large bored C's and the intonation is dreadful...so I'd stick with a LB.

There are plenty of players out there who use Yamahas who are soloists. Many with Malone conversions.

Just not a big Monette, Blackburn guy. I do like how Blackburns play though....much better than Monettes. Just like the sound of a Bach better. More colors/inflections.

Ralph · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject:

I really appricieate all the expert responses to a come back beginner like me. I just got home 30 minutes ago from Washington Music. I spent 3 hours there and came home with a L bore 229 bell with 25H leadpipe. Now let me tell you why. I tried NOT to buy this horn, but it bought me. The 25R is by far a much easier horn to play, that is, to play in tune. I don't understand the physics behind it, but reversing the leadpipe really does improve intonation. But you know, after playing both for hours, that improved slotting comes with a price. Hard to explain, but the 25H got more exciting to play as I went on. The 25R did not. The 25H requires a better player since it a wider slotting characteristic, but that's why we practice. The sound of the 25H was much more complex and full of color. So was the 25R but to a lesser extent. I wanted a solo instrument, but I ended up with the most common American orchestral combination. I tried several 25H's and found one which was noticeably better than the rest. The others were good too, but this one was better. Interestingly, It was bought once already and returned because it had a small bent in the bell tubing crook. It was previously selected by someone who tried several horns and picked this one. At least that's what the salesman told me. Moma didn't raise no fool. I've experienced good and slimey salespeople all my life, but I really liked this guy and chose to believe him. Frank Rosso is his name by the way. He also lowered the price and gave me 50% off on a 1B megatone mpc. I also tried a Schilke, Yamaha and Conn V-1. All good instruments. Can't say a bad thing about any. The Yamaha was, well, a Yamaha. Great intonation. Probably the best of all, but the sound also became boring the fastest. I also found this to be the case with Yamaha pianos which happens to be my main instrument which I've played for years. The Conn was the most interesting horn. It was at least 1 inch longer than the Bach and had very heavy wieghts on the valve caps. It certainly did make for an unusual looking an feeling horn, but a very good horn. Schilke was obviously a high quality instrument. It felt like it was put together better than the Bach, but I really don't know why I say that. I can't give you any specifics. That was just my impression. It probably had the stuffiest sound of all. I do not mean that as a slame against Schilke, just my opinion. It was still a very fine horn. Anyway I walked out with the Bach. The sound of the horn can be manipulated by a skilled player and this horn asks for that. When playing, I found myself listening much more carefully to my sound than with the other horns and consequently, started producing a better sound than with the others. It MADE me listen. Almost as if the horn was teaching me how to play. Nowhere to hide on this horn . You play naked with the 25H. I also tried a 237 bell which was good, but playing it next to the 229, well, big difference. If I wouldn't have taken as much time as I did, going from horn to horn as I did, I would have selected the 25R. One piece of advise from a bad trumpet player; take MORE time than you think you need when selecting an instrument. If you get confused, stop and go back another day. Don't buy it just because you're tired. Write down the serial numbers so you know which horns you've tried and try them again some other day. The right instrument will eventually reveal itself. Hope someone finds my post a little interesting because it sure is long. Thanks to all the accomplished players out there that gave their opinions.

Ralph · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject:

Sorry. I said 237 bell. I think I meant 239 bell. Bach does make a 237, but I think they are uncommon and hard to find.

MT VERNON BACH · Regular Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 85

Ralph...

I'll be looking for a new horn (Bach) in the spring and I noticed you said you went to Chuck Levins for your new Bach, unless there's another Washington Music Center I'm not aware of. Do they have a decent selection of new and used Bach's? What kind of price did you get on your C trumpet?

Thanks!

Chaz

Ralph · Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:29 pm Post subject:

Yes, they have a very good selection. I tried 6 different C Bachs and could have kept going if I wanted. I played three 25H and two 25R horns. I tried one with a 239 bell. I paid $1,449 for the horn with case and a mouthpiece of my choice. I ended up with a 25H mouthpipe with 229 bell and silver plated. I'm sure Dillons also has a lot to choose from, but my limited experience tells me their price is a little higher. I bought a Getzen cornet from them a few months ago. I also tried Schilke, Conn and Yamaha at Washington Music. They had Kanstul C trumpets, but I was tired by then.

Bartok · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Nov 2002 Posts: 456

Great choice......I don't think the S pipe is a great option actually. Yes, it's long and the intonation is better, but if you are playing with a group that plays on the high side (pitch wise), you can be in trouble with the 25S becuase there is hardly any pull on the tuning slide....somthing like 3/4"....then you would be stuck playing flat and lipping every note up...and this is not a good situation.

The S pipe is a terrible option for orchestral playing...most orchestras play between A=440 - A=442 in the US.

mts819 · New Member Joined: 04 Jan 2003 Posts: 2

You said the horn had a dent in it? I recently returned a Bach 25h large bore 229 with a small dent on the bell tubing before the first valve. I bought it at Washington Music about 2 weeks ago. Same horn??

[ This Message was edited by: mts819 on 2003-01-05 19:39 ]

Ralph · Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:06 pm Post subject:

It could be??!! Do you remeber the serial number of the horn? I don't have it with me because it's being shipped. I think the salesperson said it had been returned recently.

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 6:42 pm Post subject:

Yamaha...BORING! GET REAL!!!

What is the best horn for classical??? May I suggest an answer that Mike Vax and others seem to give that question a pretty good common sense answer which is:

"The trumpet that you happen to be playing at the time sound like a really good place to start.
Your post was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long (look who calling the K-B! but I the most important thing for playing classical...(what do you mean by "playing classical????

That opens a world of different kinds of music that could be taylored to soooooooooooooooooo many different choices of mouthpieces and backbores.
Through the looooooooooooong post, it would appear that the correct choice of mouthpieces should also play a major factor in how a horn timbre or voicing sounds.
I have heard Doc Severison play some really intense high energy jazz a couple of years ago at the Seattle Symphony and then again, on the very next number, play a beautiful concerto by Hayden. YES! ALL WITH THE SAME HORN AND MOUTHPIECE. Are you sure you want that much mega-meat on a mouthpiece?
Just a thought???

What mouthpiece that rules on my YTR 739 for my tin ears, sounds really blah on my Callet..etc. And that mp. when added to the Callet sound fantastic and regal.
Cup dept, bowel shape etc. Leadpipes too are a MAJOR FACTOR...and this of course too can taylor a lot in how a horn responds and plays...but that is all water under the bridge, huh?

But only time spent playing that new horn in all situations and halls etc and after the honeymoon, then perhaps a few changes first in mouthpieces and then in L-pipes but let's face it, a gifted and quality musician can pretty much get exactly the sound that they are looking for to fit the mood and music that is being played, again, without switching a hecky-darn thing.

Enjoy your new Bach. Live and learn with it...
In truth you can feel confident that your choice in this new horn, will allow you to play anything from Dixie to Hayden to bebop and have a ball on the horn you rode in on...and all that jazz.

[ This Message was edited by: BADBOY-DON on 2003-01-06 21:45 ]

Ralph · Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:27 pm Post subject:

Thanks.

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:19 am Post subject:

Thank you!