• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Read this if you want to develop into a great Player


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Read this if you want to develop into a great Player Reply with quote

Earlier this morning, I went to make a short and simple reply to someone's post in the High Range forum, and before I knew it, more than an hour had gone by and I had written another of my "masterpieces" (remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

I think the following is good, solid information for anyone out there, young or old, who truly wants to become a virtuoso level trumpet player. It starts out talking about High Range development, but it really addresses everything about becoming a great player. Get a nice cup of coffee, because it is a long read:

John Mohan wrote:
Developing a good upper register comes down to two things: the feelor knackof it, and the strength required to produce strong air pressure.

The feelor knackpart of the equation refers to learning the general movement of the lips and the tongue, and how one must blow stronger as one ascends in range. Generally speaking, the tongue arches up and forward and the lips compress together and perhaps roll slightly inward as one ascends to higher notes, and the player blows harder with the muscles of the chest (rib muscles), back and abdomen to meet the added resistance caused by the tongue and to some extent the lips (Air Power).

While all this sounds simple, it usually takes time to get the feel of it, especially if one has played for a while and developed bad habits such as too much mouthpiece pressure, moving the lips in the wrong way, or arching the tongue incorrectly or not enough.

The best playing exercises ever written to develop the required Air Power are the Part 1 exercises throughout Claude Gordon's book, "Systematic Approach to Daily Practice." The player who does these exercises as written and as instructed will develop the Air Power required to play above Double C. You lift weights; you get stronger. You do the SA Part 1 Exercises; your Air Power muscles get stronger.

The best playing exercises for developing the feel or knack of the upper register (as well as the lower and middle registers) are both the Part 2 exercises from Systematic Approach and also the many Flexibility Studies that are available ("27 Groups of Exercises" by Earl D. Irons, Colin's "Lip Flexibilities", "Lip Flexibilities" by Walter Smith, Schlossberg's book, etc.) Also, the Clarke Technical Studies book when used properly, is of extreme benefit to the upper register. But it seems that hardly anybody really knows how to use the book as Clarke meant it to be used. His written instructions were meant for the extremely advanced player going through the book for the 2nd or 3rd time under his tutelage - and even these written instructions have been completely changed and distorted by some idiotic, unnamed reviser in the current Fischer publication of the book. One way to learn how to use the book correctly is to have studied with Clarke, or perhaps to have studied with someone who studied with Clarke for many years. My teacher Claude Gordon did just that. Another way would be to study with someone who studied for many years with someone who studied for many years with Clarke (hint-hint).

Anyway, I think that about wraps it up. There is nothing magic or mystical about the extreme upper register. Any person on this planet of reasonable strength and coordination can develop a good Double C and all the other facilities required to be a virtuoso-level trumpet player. What it takes is knowing how to practice, what to practice and when to practice, combined with the tenacity to stick with it until it developswithout going off on some tangent and trying some wacky mouthpiece design, "no-pressure" device, buzzing exercises, or other meritless time waster.

A real good starting point for the developing player who doesn't want to spend the money to study privately with someone like me, would be to buy the book "Brass Playing Is No Harder That Deep Breathing" by Claude Gordon, published by Carl Fischer. It's available at:

http://www.claudegordonmusic.com/

Everything written in that book is accurate and is in my opinion, mandatory reading for anybody that wants to develop into a great brass player.

I think the biggest hurdle is that the vast majority don't really want to develop into great players all that much. Oh, they'll say they do, but when it comes to "writing the check", meaning spending the money on lessons with a great teacher, and maybe traveling a long way to do it, then their desires go to the back burner. I developed into a pretty good player, with a range from Triple Pedal C to G above Double C. Of far more importance than the extremes in my range, I developed great tone, accuracy, technical ability, and musicianship. This allowed me the privilege and blessing of a 25 year career as a professional musician playing all over the U.S., Canada and Europe. But it all started, when I was given the chance, and I was willing at the age of 17 to travel from Chicago to Los Angeles for a Crash Course with Claude Gordon. It cost me $500, plus the Airfare, and Hotel accommodations and restaurant food for the week. The Crash Course consisted of about 10 hours of Private Lessons, and then Claude wrote up a year's worth of clearly written Lesson to be done, customized for my level of playing, strengths and weakness. All told, the cost of the trip added up to about $1400, which in 1979 was a lot of money (about 1/5th the cost of a new Mustang GT at the time). But that didn't stop me - I was thrilled at the opportunity. And so were many others. Claude charged $50 and hour for lessons at the time (that would be like charging about $150 today). Yet he had so many students, he could only see them each once per month. When I had my Crash Course, he was teaching 5 days a week, practically non-stop from 8am until 10pm and even later sometimes. He would eat his meals as he taught. Unlike many of the other famous teachers who would pick and choose their students with the goal enhancing their reputations by the quality of their students, Claude never turned anyone away who had a real desire to play.

After taking several Crash Courses, over a period of a couple of years, my young wife and I moved to California so I could study full-time with Claude. Becoming a trumpet player (a working trumpet player) was the number one goal in my life. I moved across the country for it, and I practiced and practiced and practiced. That's what it takes. But I really don't see that so much anymore. Maybe it still exists, but I don't think there are as many who are as dedicated as there once were.

But, this can be viewed as an opportunity to those who do have the dedication. Claude always said, "There's always room at the top." I believe he was right about that. And furthermore, based on what I've heard in terms of playing ability of the current generation of younger players, I think there's going to be lots more room at the top in the near future. A combination of budget cuts that have caused band programs not to start often until High School age, combined with the sad fact that the current young generation has become addled with Video Games, MySpace and other wastes of time has created a golden opportunity for the truly motivated. From what I've seen and heard, the typical 16 year old trumpet player plays now at the ability level that I and my fellows students played at when we are about 11 (I started when I was 7 years old, and even my fellow students started by 5th grade). And what's more, we practiced. I didn't have the benifit of Claude Gordon's knowledge until I was older, but I did have good, decent teachers who lead me through Arbans, Colin, and other material. Though they didn't even know about or teach about the importance of the arching tongue, at least the practice routines were good and well-rounded. And we all practiced. We didn't play "World of Warcraft", we didn't text-message, we didn't waste time with MySpace. We practiced.

You see where I've gone with this? If you're young, you've got more opportunity than previous generations, because generally speaking, the rest of the kids your age aren't as dedicated and willing to do what it takes. If you can rise above the rest, and spend your time on your horns, you've got an even bigger chance to make it as a professional than anyone in my generation did. And youve also got far more opportunity to find out about how to play via the internet. I was lucky in that I found out about Claude Gordon through an ad on the back of my Arbans book. You can go to websites and learn tons of stuff. Here are a few good ones:

http://www.claudegordonmusic.com/

http://www.purtle.com/jeff.html

http://www.purtle.com/jeff_articles.html

http://www.trumpetguild.org/itgyouth/masterclass/Purtle.htm

http://mattgraves.netfirms.com/trumpet_related.htm

http://mattgraves.netfirms.com/claude_gordon.htm

http://mattgraves.netfirms.com/john_mohan.htm

So, get with it! Read the wealth of good material available on the above Websites. Then find a great teacher (Id recommend Jeff Purtle, Matt Graves, Eric Bolvin, or myself) and practice, practice, and practice some more.

One last plug: The next time youre in Las Vegas, be sure to see the Danny Gans show at the Mirage Hotel. And listen to the trumpet player. Pete Bresciani has been playing that show since day one. Before that, he played lead trumpet on shows at the Sands, the Stardust, and I think the Flamingo. Basically, hes the most successful trumpet player working in Vegas. Hes the only one I know who has been employed full time there, through all the downsizing and cutbacks, for the past 20 years. Hes also a Claude Gordon student.

Thanks for reading all this.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
http://mattgraves.netfirms.com/john_mohan.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Yamahaguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3992

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just cut/paste into Word...3 1/2 pages, nice work John!
Going for a cup of joe, then a good read-
Peace,
-Dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chuck in ny
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3604
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now i have to find out what tongue arching is all about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
deleted_user_fdb91a0
New Member


Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, just go buy the Claude Gordon book...same stuff, just reiterated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2002
Posts: 611
Location: oregon

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,
Are you saying that the only way to achieve success on the trumpet is through Mr. Gordon's method?
Thanks,
Jaimie Hall


Last edited by 1B on Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fraserhutch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 2548
Location: Oakville, ON Canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drewwilkie86 wrote:
Or, just go buy the Claude Gordon book...same stuff, just reiterated.


Seems to me he's suggesting you do exactly that...
_________________
Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
GR and Curry Mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Matt Graves
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 836
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, John!

John is speaking from experience, not just reiterating.
Why is it that people seem to be iritated when people share from their
experience, from their acheivement?

Plenty of people have a Claude Gordon book...on their shelf.

Let's see, Gordon's books would be Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing, Physical Approach, Systematic Approach, Daily Routines,
Tongue Level Exercises and 30 Velocity Studies.

There at least 6 other books mentioned in SA:
Arban, Saint-Jacome, Walter Smith, Colin, Clarke's Technical Studies
and Clarke's Characteristic Studies.

Guess what. That's a small beginning. I can think of at least 10 other books that I went through within a five year period studying with Claude...and there was and should always be more...

You wanna be good, be hungry! Yeah, buy Claude's books and spend your time applying Claude's teaching to the rest. Gobble up books and books and more books, and music and music...(voice of cookie monster here).

I like what Mick Hesse said recently about buying everything in the Robert King catalogue!!!

Practice, Practice, Practice,...
_________________
For Online Lessons via Live Video, email
me at matthewjgraves@gmail.com
Author of Fundamental Flexibility Studies
Claude Gordon Certified Teacher
BAC Custom Dream Trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
crzytptman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John , that was a great post. Your story is inspiring. I really appreciate what you say about players that don't want to put in the work to reap the rewards, and the amount of time to do so.
I was recently watching a video of Freddie Hubbard with my drummer friend. It was from 1975, and also featured Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, Lenny White and Airto. We were remarking that it seems today that most people are not as physical as 30 yrs ago, and that carries over to the music as well. Freddie was in really good shape, and his playing was muscular. I remember reading Clarke's autobiography, and thinking the same thing - comparing today's lifestyle with the turn of the (19th-20th) century. So many complex functions can be done today with the push of a button and virtually no learning curve, much less any physical exertion.
John, I'd like you to comment on one thing:
I use the SA. I have played the CG Personal mpc and played really high on it. I play a free blowing XL bore horn. I do not feel I get the right sound and "cut" with this set up to play lead in a big band, or even a 4-6 horn section. I never see any lead or commercial (business) players using this kind of equipment. I have developed power, range, flexibilty using the principles you've outlined in your post, but the equipment doesn't transfer over to the gig world. I know you've done it, but who else and why is it so rare?
Always a pleasure to read your comments.
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Yamahaguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3992

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Graves wrote:
There at least 6 other books mentioned in SA:
Arban, Saint-Jacome, Walter Smith, Colin, Clarke's Technical Studies
and Clarke's Characteristic Studies.
Absolutley right...part of the 'routine.'
You don't have to be a student of Gordon to benefit from his books.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1B wrote:
John,
Are you saying that the only way to achieve success on the trumpet is through Mr. Gordon's method?
Thanks,
Jaimie Hall


Hi Jamie,

The onlyway? Certainly not. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of great players who studied with other teachers's methods, or are even self-taught. But I do feel that the most sure way to success on the trumpet is the methods developed by Herbert L. Clarke and Louis Maggio, and refined and combined into one systematic approach by Claude Gordon.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
motoboy
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To support John's post, I started playing twenty months ago after an eighteen year lay-off. I didn't pick up a horn until my first lesson with Jeff Purtle. I bought a large cornet (Wild Thing Short) with the large mouthpiece (#1) and did what Jeff told me. I practiced at least one smart hour per day spread throughout the evening and within eight months or so could play a double C in the practice room (thanks to Systematic Approach). That wasn't my goal. Ultra high playing doesn't concern me just yet. I am more concerned with playing musically and in tune so others will wish to hear me play (and pay me for it if at all possible).

Well, here I am now playing a small number of paying gigs (weddings and churches) as well as playing in my local community band and orchestra. It is all happening about a year ahead of my schedule and I never had so much fun.

I'm not saying this is the only system that works. I'm just saying it has worked perfectly well for me.

Thanks
Mark Alkire
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crzytptman wrote:
John , that was a great post. Your story is inspiring. I really appreciate what you say about players that don't want to put in the work to reap the rewards, and the amount of time to do so.
I was recently watching a video of Freddie Hubbard with my drummer friend. It was from 1975, and also featured Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, Lenny White and Airto. We were remarking that it seems today that most people are not as physical as 30 yrs ago, and that carries over to the music as well. Freddie was in really good shape, and his playing was muscular. I remember reading Clarke's autobiography, and thinking the same thing - comparing today's lifestyle with the turn of the (19th-20th) century. So many complex functions can be done today with the push of a button and virtually no learning curve, much less any physical exertion.
John, I'd like you to comment on one thing:
I use the SA. I have played the CG Personal mpc and played really high on it. I play a free blowing XL bore horn. I do not feel I get the right sound and "cut" with this set up to play lead in a big band, or even a 4-6 horn section. I never see any lead or commercial (business) players using this kind of equipment. I have developed power, range, flexibilty using the principles you've outlined in your post, but the equipment doesn't transfer over to the gig world. I know you've done it, but who else and why is it so rare?
Always a pleasure to read your comments.


Jeff Purtle also plays the CG Personal and he sounds pretty good on his website. But on the other hand he is not making a living in the Studio world of Los Angeles either.

If you like the feel of the CG Personal, but want a slightly brighter sound, get a "Mohan 7MV" from Kanstul. It's identical in size, rim and design to the CG Personal, but has a slightly shallower V-Cup than the CG Personal. If you want to hurt people, get the "Mohan 7SV" from Kanstul.

Ah yes, the mouthpiece controversy. This is the one area where I have diverged ever so slightlyfrom what Claude taught. This reply could very well end up longer than my original post - I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

Claude felt that overly restrictive, shallow, tight little mouthpieces only held the player back and kept him from developing. In the vast majority of cases this is absolutely true (but no one is going to tell anyone that Bill Chase was "held back"). But first of all, Bill Chase is an exception to the norm, and second of all, no one ever thought it would be a good idea to hire Bill Chase to play for a Symphony Orchestra. He was not considered to be a well-rounded player who could move easily between any and all styles of playing. He did one thing and he did it great. Note that I'm not saying he couldn'thave developed and played any style - he probably could have. But not on a Schilke 6A4A mouthpiece. So I agree completely with Claude about his contention.

Now here is where there is a bit of a divergence: Times changed. When Claude did his studio playing, there wasn't a whole lot of difference in the tonality required, whether he was doing the trumpet part on "I Love Lucy" or some big Cecil DeMille movie production score. But in today's studio world, and even in the world of the Musical, you've got to sound like Adolph Herseth on one day, and Bill Chase on another. If you're playing 1st Trumpet for the Musical "Cats" you've got to make the transition 3 or 4 times during each show!

While I was studying with Claude, I tried to play his CG Personal. But it seemed too dark, and it seemed too small in diameter. (I've learned since then that the diameter was just fine - it just didn't work for me because of the skeletonized rim - now I have a screw-rim set up with a Bob Reeves 43 Rim and a CG Personal underpart and it works just fine for me). Anyway, back then I preferred a Bach 1 1/2C with a 22 Throat and a Schmidt backbore. Claude was fine with this setup. But I wanted to match that sizzling, bright tone that was so popular in L.A. in the '70's and '80's. Everybody around me was playing Reeves 42S and similar little mouthpieces. Finally, I went to Joe Marcinkiewicz and had him make me a custom mouthpiece that was basically a slightly shallower version of a Bach 1 1/2 C. Claude didn't like it but he put up with it. I played this mouthpiece for years. And for years my weak-point was that if I overdid it, I would get a cut on my lip from the inner rim edge. But I still played it - it gave a big, bright sound. In the pictures of me at "Cats" that's the mouthpiece in my horn (this is from 1999).

But I always wanted to play Claude's mouthpiece, and again, in late 1999 I got it out and started playing the "Cats" show on it. Now things were different - I was a way stronger player than I had been when I was a kid studying with Claude. I was still worried about my tone. But much to my surprise, as I was walking out of the theater after using the CG Personal for the Show, I asked the Music Director if my sound had been okay that night (normally I would NEVERask such a question from an MD). To my surprise, Graham replied, "Oh yes John, I meant to mention to you, your sound was really big tonight - you sounded great!" ???????? How could this be? To me it sounded darker! But apparently what I heard behindthe trumpet isn't what the Director heard in front of the trumpet. So I played the CG Personal for a while. But again, the thing seemed too small in diameter for me - I kept getting occasional air-attacks instead of notes. But I did like the rim feel - the problem with the lip cutting had disappeared and apparently was related directly to the sharp Bach-type inner rim on my custom Marcinkiewicz mouthpiece (not Marcinkiewicz's fault - I told him to emulate my Bach's rim and he did). I will mention that of all my mouthpieces (I have perhaps 100), my wife likes the sound of the CG Personal the best. I thinkthat is a good thing... Anyway, before I decided that it was simply too small in Diameter for me, in an effort to make it brighter, I developed the Kanstul-made "Mohan 7MV" and "Mohan 7SV" mouthpieces. They are identical to the CG Personal but with slightly shallower V-cups. Perfect for the player of a CG Personal, who wants a slightly brighter tone. But since I can't play the CG Personal rim, ironically they are not for me.

When "Cats" closed and I went to Berlin to play "Hunchback" this show was a dark, classical type show, and I was playing 2nd trumpet, so I needed a more orchestral setup. For the most part I used my Bach 1 1/2 C again and even sometimes my CG Personal, though when I was preparing for my audition with the Rundfunk Orchester Berlin I discovered the magic of the Bach Mount Vernon 1. In terms of bigness of sound, nothing comes close. Interestingly, Christian Meyers, the guy playing 1st trumpet on "Hunchy" plays a Reeves 43ES - "Extra Shallow" - yet had a pretty nice, well rounded tone!!! I'd sound like a circular saw if I played on an ES mouthpiece (that would be "rounded" but not "well-rounded" - ha ha ha - groan).

Then "Hunchy" closed and I got work playing 1st Trumpet for "Evita". The player I replaced was my old friend Bob Burns (he wasn't fired - Evita had closed for several months and he got other work so when they were setting up the next "Evita" run, they needed a replacement). I had subbed on 2nd trpt on "Evita" toward the end of Bobby's run and we got to spend a few days together. He was playing Bob Reeves equipment. A lot of people around me were making money playing Bob Reeves mouthpieces. Sometimes I am slow to react. It took me 20 years of sitting next to great players playing Bob Reeves mouthpieces before I finally took the plunge. Well, not much of a plunge. Just before I started full-time on "Evita" I bought a 43C on eBay for about $35. I LOVED it. I still love it! Then, in an effort to emulate the CG Personal with a rim I could play, I ordered a 43B made with a 22 throat and the Reeves #3 (big) backbore. I LOVE it too! It's perfect for shows where the style is classical. It's still too bright for an Orchestra, but for that I have my Bach Mount Vernon 1 and Mount Vernon 1 Rim with 1B underpart (the current Bach 1X is identical to the Mount Vernon Bach, but costs about $40 instead of about $1000 IF you can find one).

I've also tried the 43M and 43S but they don't work for me - too restrictive and shallow. I did have a CG Personal fitted to the 43 rim in a screw rim setup - they match to each other perfectly, which shows me that the inner diameter of the CG Personal was never the problem - it was the rim shape and the skeletonized design that just doesn't work for me.

I played the 43C for "Evita", "West Side Story", and the European Tour of the Musical "Grease". On each of those successive shows, I got hired because the Musical Director (Janice Aubrey) specifically requested me (she first heard me when I subbed on "Evita"). And from what she says, it is my sound, power and accuracy that she loved most about me. I think a goodly part of that comes from the use of that 43C.

Not willing to leave what is perfect alone, I have recently moved to the Reeves 42 size rims. I play mostly on a 42C, but I also have a 42B/22 Throat/#3 Backbore that I would use if I do any Concert Band or Classical-type Musical work. I am not 100% decided on sticking with the smaller 42 rim. It is very comfortable, and the high notes are even easier than the 43 rim, but the sound just isn't as "big". I guess I am being a bit lazy.

The C cup Reeves mouthpieces all come with a #26 throat and the standard Reeves #2 Backbore, which is bigger than a standard Bach backbore. As such, to me, these meet Claude's definition of a good, free-blowing mouthpiece (though maybe Claude would grumble a bit). But I think he'd be happy with what he heard coming out of the bell...

When I get around to it, I might order a 42C (or maybe a 43C if I go back to the 43) with a #22 Throat and the bigger #3 backbore to see if I like it better than the bone-stock 42C or 43C that I have liked so much.

See, I toldyou it would be a long reply!

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

motoboy wrote:
To support John's post, I started playing twenty months ago after an eighteen year lay-off. I didn't pick up a horn until my first lesson with Jeff Purtle. I bought a large cornet (Wild Thing Short) with the large mouthpiece (#1) and did what Jeff told me. I practiced at least one smart hour per day spread throughout the evening and within eight months or so could play a double C in the practice room (thanks to Systematic Approach). That wasn't my goal. Ultra high playing doesn't concern me just yet. I am more concerned with playing musically and in tune so others will wish to hear me play (and pay me for it if at all possible).

Well, here I am now playing a small number of paying gigs (weddings and churches) as well as playing in my local community band and orchestra. It is all happening about a year ahead of my schedule and I never had so much fun.

I'm not saying this is the only system that works. I'm just saying it has worked perfectly well for me.

Thanks
Mark Alkire


Hi Mark,

I am so very glad to hear of your success - though not in the least surprised. Jeff is a great player and a great teacher. And Matt Graves, too. If I had a friend, or even son who wanted to play trumpet and lived near either one of them, they would be my first choice for a teacher.

Cheers,

John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
crzytptman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, thanks for the reply! Not too long for me - I love information.
Just to clarify, is it your opinion the reason a mpc like the CG doesn't work in the commercial field due to the change in sound requirements, not from any difficulty in the playing demands? Could you have used your Mohan 7s with the 43 rim, or is the "Reeves" sound the popular sound that you can only get with the Reeves piece? Can we parallel that with the orchestral sound and the Bach MtV 1? Where would the CG sound be appropriate today? I have to admit, it's a great mpc!
Thanks for your time!
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bilboinsa
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 3378
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terrific post, John!
_________________
Doug Walsdorf

Schilke B2;
Kanstul 1525;
1927 Conn 22B
1970 B&H Regent
"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
http://www.myspace.com/schilkeb2
Member: http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bilboinsa wrote:
Terrific post, John!


Thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crzytptman wrote:
John, thanks for the reply! Not too long for me - I love information.
Just to clarify, is it your opinion the reason a mpc like the CG doesn't work in the commercial field due to the change in sound requirements, not from any difficulty in the playing demands? Could you have used your Mohan 7s with the 43 rim, or is the "Reeves" sound the popular sound that you can only get with the Reeves piece? Can we parallel that with the orchestral sound and the Bach MtV 1? Where would the CG sound be appropriate today? I have to admit, it's a great mpc!
Thanks for your time!


Oh goodness, here comes another long reply:

One thing about the CG Personal, is that it does seem that the player can vary the sound more on it than on any other mouthpiece. You, the player can make it sound bright, or you can make it sound dark. Dimensionally, it is very similar to a New York Bach 7 (just a bit more V-shaping because of a slightly higher "alpha angle").

Remember, I played 1st Trumpet for "Cats" on it for a time - and during that time, the MD thought my sound was bigger (meaning better). So it certainly can be used for commercial situations.

On the other hand, when I was working up the Haydn for a German audition, my wife thought the CG Personal gave the best, dark orchestral sound of all my pieces (which at that time included my Bach 1 1/2C 22 Throat Schmidt Backbored piece, but not the Mount Vernon 1/1B screwrim piece yet).

The point is, the same player, the same horn, and both times, a CG Personal, sounded great for the lead trumpet of a screaming show, yet also sounded dark and orchestral for an audition (that audition was the one for the "Hunchback" show in Berlin, which I won and got two years of 8-Shows a week work out of).

Jeff Purtle playes exclusively on a CG Personal, and he sounds pretty screamy on the end of his Website's opening thing. (See: http://www.purtle.com/jeff.html ).

I reread your question, and I now realize that the questions also pertain also to whether or not one can use the CG Personal for demanding work. Of course one can! The CG Personal is a VERY efficient mouthpiece. Anything I can play on a Reeves 43C I can play on a CG Personal. Note that this answer only applies if the player is playing correctly (meaning he is using air power and the tongue properly to make the lips do less of the work. The guy who replies on a shallow, tight mouthpiece instead of good air power will feel like he's falling into a CG Personal. The CG Personal allows the player to use his air.

For me, when I occasionally try to play my daily routine on a shallower mouthpiece (such as a 42M or 43M or even an S model), I find myself getting worn out from it. My corners start getting burny from having to tense them up to keep my lips from going into the mouthpiece and bottoming out.

All players are different. 99.9% are really better off on medium or larger mouthpieces. But a very few do well on tiny mouthpieces. But they are in the minority. I think in many ways, mouthpiece cup size and shape is a lot like running shoes. You've got to find the fit and style (meaning cup shape) that works best for you. And just like running shoes, smaller is not neccessarily better.

It sounds to me like you've found your mouthpiece. Stick with it! If you want to do anything different at all, maybe get a Mohan 7MV and see if you like it better. But I wouldn't stray farther than that if I were you.

Cheers,

John

P.S. In regard to the Bach MV1, nothing sounds like a Bach MV1 or MV1/1B Screw rim setup (except good copies of that setup). The CG Personal can sound nice and dark and big, but there is this certain "ring" to the tone of the MV1 and MV1/1B mouthpieces, and they sound big like the Grand Canyon type of big. If you want that sound, they are the way to go. You can get close to it with a Bach 3B (with 22 throat and 24 backbore), or with a CG Personal. But don't think for a minute you're going to make it through a show like "Cats" or "West Side Story" on a Mount Vernon 1! The sound will be wrong, and you'll die of exhaustion before intermission.

P.P.S. A Reeves 42C will always sound like a Reeves 42C and not take much effort to play. A Mount Vernon 1 will always sound like a Mount Vernon 1 and will always take effort to play (in the upper register). A CG Personal can sound almost the same as a 42C, or almost the same as a MV1, and it will be as easy to play as the little Reeves piece.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
crzytptman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, John. I appreciate your time and expertise. I think this is good info for all trumpeters.
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RNelson
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 1801
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mohan, just read your original post on this thread.

Thanks man, I haven't seen a Mohan post around here for a long time. Its always entertaining.

Ray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John Mohan
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9831
Location: Chicago, Illinois

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RNelson wrote:
Hey Mohan, just read your original post on this thread.

Thanks man, I haven't seen a Mohan post around here for a long time. Its always entertaining.

Ray


Hi Ray,

Judging from the gapers' blocks that form, people find car accident scenes entertaining, too...

Hope the entertainment you have derived from my posts is of a different nature than that.

Best wishes,

John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group