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Jim-Wilson
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Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 415
Location: Fort Smith, AR

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Finally! Reply with quote

This is not really self congratulation - just an observation. I'm 2 1/2 years into a comeback and the Stamp material has been a large part of my comeback. I have a long way to go but generally have a good solid tone from the lowest of the Stamp pedals to E above the staff all with the same embouchure and no manipulation - that itself took awhile. The particular hurdle I am just getting over may be an artificial one - but maybe not. Stamp exercise #6 played along with the CD is 10 minutes 16 seconds of straight playing. I have not done this particular exercise regularly but have come back to it periodically just to see how I'm doing in the endurance department. Prior to today I have never gotten through it with out stopping and/or thinning out/missing notes on track #27. Today I got through it with no difficulty - it had been about 2 weeks since I last worked on it and though previously I got through it I really thinned out on the last two lines - today no thinning out and no missed notes!

Anyhow, all along the way I've been wondering what the purpose/goal of exercise 6 was. I don't have the Poper book and haven't trolled through all the sticky's and posts to get a better idea. But, it has been an endurance challenge for me that I'm finally "rising to".

Does anyone else struggle with exercise 6? I still try to keep a nice even tone and easy manner about the whole exercise but it has been an endurance challenge.

Some of you that studied with Stamp or those close to him - what was/is the overriding purpose behind exercise 6?

Jim
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Jim-Wilson
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Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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Location: Fort Smith, AR

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.... The silence makes me wonder even more how others approach these exercises with the CD tracks. Does everybody rest between each track even though there may be multiple tracks in an exercise? Is trying to do exercise 6 without stopping too much a "marathon" approach? It has certainly felt like a marathon to me. Thoughts?

Jim
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connicalman
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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Location: West Medford, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Stamp No. 6, Route 66... classic kicks Reply with quote

Man, that is something! Like doing a marathon, indeed. Or a 100-mile bike ride. Epic is as epic does! Me, not yet. Anyone else?

Here, my practice time is based in Stamp as well. But I wonder: Have you done much from the book of that cornet master, Clarke?

Thing is, I got this sneaking suspicion that the old man, Clarke, he'd insist one could manage No. 6 in a single breath!
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Jim-Wilson
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Location: Fort Smith, AR

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I do some Clarke but nowhere near enough. I know he's not just for finger dexterity but that is one of my major weaknesses - I really need to do it more. The idea of doing exercise #6 in one breath would be like swimming the channel from Catalina Island to Malibu underwater in one breath! I do appreciate the hyperbole though - I'm rarely fast and fluid enough with my fingering to get 8-16 repetitions on Clarke with one breath. The problem is more my dexterity than my breathing.

Concerning exercise 6 - I think what helped my endurance more than anything else is the "20 Minute Warm-up" with accompanying CD played by Phil Smith. I've been doing that for about 8 months now. At first, I was amazed how something that seemed so simple could be so hard. But, I kept at it and rested a lot. Now, I can play it all the way through in one setting with no stops. The last exercise is a pedal routine that follows the exercise "Control" which is a series of slurs starting up to E above the staff and working down. By the time I'm finished with that I go straight to the pedal exercise and have yet to hit the first low pedal F#. I can catch up with the next note and slur back down to the F# but have yet to go directly from "Control" to the low pedal F#. Anyhow, I think it was the persistence on that routine that has done so much for my endurance. Now, if I could only do "Flight of the Bumblebee" like Maurice Andre!

Jim
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connicalman
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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Location: West Medford, MA

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:09 am    Post subject: no doubt a milestone Reply with quote

Hi - There was a post and a long string of responses a while back about 'come-back' milestones. You may have surpassed the great many with this particular accomplishment. Check out that thread for comparisons. (theme from 'Rocky' plays in the background)

Regarding Stamp 6, I group 4 to 6 lines and take them on, then rest, as that's where I am. Sometimes I do those 4 to 6 lines by skipping to every 3rd or 4th line thru the exercise, just for a break in the modulation mode. (cue up John Cage's 4' 33" of silence)

Each to their own pursuits, just as the folks who do double triathlons --224 mile bike, (I don't know how much swim - but it's double!) and then a 52-mile 'marathon' -- all in one day, these things aren't even in my capacity to comprehend. Perhaps you have found that type of place. (tune radio to oldies 80's station, hear: ...Under the anvil of the sun, I sweat, like a train - I come, I come - my body to dust, scorched by the might of the sun (for) I love to feel the rain in the summertime... - The Alarm, circa 1987)

The poet and writer who ushered western civilization from the dark ages, Petrarch, climbed Mount Ventoux simply 'because it was there'. I've pondered what he hoped for on the way up, and what he might have discovered about himself on the trip. I bet you have a good story to tell.

Note that the next post in Stamp has to do with breathing. Yes I joked about Clarke regarding his 'etude in one breath' dicatate - no kidding, huh??!! Maybe you have some insight for that poster, on their question of breath!

Good luck
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Jim-Wilson
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Location: Fort Smith, AR

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess what ever success I've had in regard to exercise 6 is more a reflection of ignorance on my part. I didn't realize it was a mountain I was climbing! I just saw "Exercise 6" and two pages of flow study and figured it was to be done without stopping and resting. I certainly stopped and rested a lot for quite a long time but am now able to get through it.

I don't have anything to contribute about Stamp and breathing. Obviously, there's a lot I don't know and I'll try better to keep my ignorance to myself.

Thanks for the responses. For Petrarch and Mt. Ventoux, if he was like many writers in the age of modernity - he was probably just looking for a new marketing angle for his work.

Jim
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oj
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Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1696
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

Like you I do the "20 Minute Warm-up" (almost every morning). I love to "play along" with Phil Smith

What I think is great with Exercise 15 (Pedal C, down to Pedal F#) is that you develop the "inner embouchure" (btw this is a concept by Roger Webster). I think Stamp would call it "develop a cushion".

What I think happen is this. On trumpet (not on cornet) you need to "bend" the pedal C up into pitch. When you do that, you move the lips innward.

You get this movement also when doing bending in the normal register, but on pedal C (for most trumpet brands) you have to do it even more.

A student of Stamp, Mick Hesse, has published a book where he uses this idea. I did an interview with Mick. Here is a quote from the interview where he explain his "bending concept":
Quote:
After all these years I started thinking about what bending actually does and I think I figured it out. Roy Poper wrote a great book of instructions for Stamp's book and this helps understand those principles as well. I decided to turn things upside down and bend upwards. In other words by just using the lips, play a note with normal fingering and then maintain that same pitch by using fingerings a half step higher. I found that this forces me to move my lips forwards and arch my tongue to accomplish it. Exactly what teachers have been telling me for years! Don't smile while playing, but keep the corners of my mouth firm while ascending and doing upward lip slurs. It works!! In fact I remember lessons with Harry where he said, don't smile when I take a breath. I had a terrible habit of doing that. These "Ascending Bending" exercises force me to NOT do that.


The whole interview is here: http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/hesse/

Ole
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Jim-Wilson
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Location: Fort Smith, AR

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ole,

Thank you very much for your post. One correction on my part - Exercise 15 starts with Pedal C - I'm not sure what I was thinking. Anyhow, just today it came out on the first note right after finish exercises 1-14. They still don't sound like Phil Smith but things keep getting better. I agree with you about enjoying playing along with Phil Smith - I have all my exercise tracks on a laptop in my music room and keep an earbud in one ear only when I do "play along" exercises. I actually listen to the first 15 tracks and "play along" with Phil Smith - though every 4th or 5th time I do them without a play along to be sure I'm sounding OK "on my own".

Thanks alot for the info on Mick Hesse and his book - the interview was fascinating - thanks for your website and all the effort you've put into it through the years.

Concerning the Stamp exercises, I'd love to attend the seminar/masterclass with Mr. Poper at Oberlin but will be out of the country at that time. I really do need to purchase Poper's book since I use Stamp as much as I do. I find my embouchure has been in a constant "development mode" for the 2 1/2 years of my comeback. I'm still not fully "settled" - my low register is decent but only occasionally do my low G's and F#'s come out hugely centered and full. Above them I'm pretty consistent but I've got a ways to go in that area (as well as many others).

Again, thanks for the post and info.

BTW, I'd still enjoy hearing from some of the accomplished Stamp folks about exercise 6 and the issue of playing the exercise through without stopping.

Jim
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oj
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Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1696
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

Another option with the "20 Minutes" is to play one line along with Phil, then rest on the next and listen to him. By this you will rest as much as you play and you will also use your ears (and brain) in a musical way.

I wrote a little article about that book where I mention this idea:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/articles/20_minute/

Ole
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