Monette Constant Pitch Center

oliver king · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 1742

Are the shorter shank and wider throat the factors that give Monette that ability? How do they compare to the Stork/Vacchiano pieces?
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Hack001 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1685

That information is top secret. I think there was a leak a while back that Dave Monette got all his "ideas" from his cat, Sheldon. STC... Sheldon The Cat. Or maybe there is voodoo in the brass he uses. Or like evil demons possessing the mouthpieces that make you play better when you are alive, but steal your soul in return. Who knows. That's why I use Karl Hammond pieces. Each one has been checked with a demon/voodoo scanner and you get a printout of the scan with a guarantee that there is no voodoo or demons. I don't know if he has a cat or not.

Monettes are nothing like Stork mouthpieces.
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MrJackson · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:34 am Post subject:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

as to the mouthpieces, it's a combination (I believe) of each angle, taper rate, rim shape, metal density, etc that is unique to each mouthpiece model. they definitely do play more in-tune than other brands, and the different mouthpieces for different key instruments does result in more overtones and color. the sound does tend to be a bit more diffuse than other mouthpieces, but if you are a player with alot of core to begin with that might not be an issue. They are worth the money, IMO, as well.
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AverageJoe · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:01 am Post subject:

Constant pitch center is a marketing gimmick more than anything else (anyone remember the old Benge "Resno-Tempered Bell"?). Seriously, pitch center has much more to do with how you play than it does with what you play.

sparxIV · Veteran Member Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 257

- are you suggesting the 'Resno-Tempered Bell' is (was) a marketing gimmick ?

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mafields627 · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:58 am Post subject:

loweredsixth · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:00 am Post subject:

loweredsixth · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Monette Constant Pitch Center

lipshurt · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:12 am Post subject:

Howdy...
I thought about not sending this post cuz I dont really want to get into a back and forth about monettes secrets, magic, voodoo, math, etc.
This is just stuff that have observed over the course of many years working on peoples mouthpieces, and doing lots of what might be called research. If someone thinks I'm wrong that's fine, but I would hate to be on the receiving end of the kind of abuse that some people dish out on the internet. I'm posting it though because it's really pretty basic stuff, that LOTS of people have known for lots of years. There may be a spelling error or two. Please let that mean nothing.

I have made a lot of mouthpieces modeled after the monette ones to try to see if it was the shank/backbore/throat combination that was the "secret"

That is the case I think.
The cups and rims are just standard fare, and are really copies of other mouthpieces (just like about every mouthpiece is.) see comparator

The shorter length, bigger throat, longer throat, and shorter backbore work great together. This is not not new by the way. It's really really really old. You have to have all three pieces to the puzzle or it sucks though.
People have been doing this modification to bach and other mouthpieces for decades. Freddie webster did to a lot of his famous friend's mouthpieces (dizzy etc)

If you take a standard mouthpiece, cut the end off about .320 or so, then turn the shank down to it's original end diameter so it's back to it's original dimension (probably about .385) you will see that the end is a bit thicker than "normal". Just like a monette. (dont bevel it out to make the end thinner...does not work very well)

Then if you open the throat to either a 23 or 22 you will see that is longer too, just like a monette (pretty exactly too). Lead mouthpieces need about a 25 throat but the same long length. Smaller backbores proportionately make that happen.

The resultant backbore is right there in the ball park too, allowing for different backbore choices etc. Pretty much they are short versions of "normal" backbore, as if you simply did not run the backbore tool as far into the mouthpiece, or, just cut the end off and the shaved the shank down.

So now you have a cup just like a monette, a throat just like a monette, and a backbore and overall length just like a monette. Which is just like any number of mouthpieces from the past, like a freddie webster mod, or work done by any number of mouthpiece guys from the past.

It will work really well too, for people that take to the short shank concept.

Not everyone is well suited to the short shank.
The short shank for some people is too slotty and might be too inflexible. It can also be a little diffused like the earlier post said. It also can be a little slower in response (but nothing like simply drilling out a mouthpiece!)
I never noticed the short shank being more in tune than a good "normal" mouthpiece, but the intonation is really good, especially in the upper and lower registers. I would call the intonation a toss up, with slightly different tendencies

I just switched back to a normal shank after a couple years, and like the core in the sound better, but I did like the feel and pitch and slots of the short shank thing. I could easily go back.

"prana" mouthpieces have bigger backbore, like you ran a normal length backbore tool all the way into a short mouthpiece. Then you have to really have a big throat to get the right throat length! Big as in a 18 or 17.
Lots of people have trouble with that though. I like it for a short time when it feels incredible, then I cant hang with it. I imagine some guys can really make that work. It might take a while though.

So there is my take on the short shank thing. It's not magic. It's just a mouthpiece
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Foxytrpt · Veteran Member Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 277

Monettes are a waste of $300!
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lipshurt · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:31 am Post subject:

$300 is not too bad if you get a custom made rim and cup and have it fit correctly in your specific horn. That kind of attention has to cost something.
A custom mouthpiece has to at least cost $150 just to pay for the labor of a skilled worker who deserves it. (or the CNC tooling costs

Monettes are gold plated too, plus the adjustment of the shank diameter is fairly time consuming.

And do monettes really cost $300?

Isn't that just for a "prana"?

I thought the regular ones were less money.
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butxifxnot · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 2353

Yeah, standard monettes are $225. Pranas are the extra $75. And FT, if you found a mouthpiece that played better in every facet than what you have, you'd pay almost anything for it. ;P
Provided you could afford it, of course.

Lips, I know extremely little about mouthpiece stuff, but the Monette with it's non-standard shank and abnormally large throat size seems to me to be the clincher as to what makes it most different. Quite simply, nothing slots and tunes the way that design does for me.

And that's the key word: for me.
It doesn't work for everyone. But what does.
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FDC05 · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:47 am Post subject:

A few things...

STC stands for "Superior Tone Color" not Sheldon the Cat, as people enjoy rumoring about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SXLtHyZgb8&feature=channel_page

start about 5:30 into it.

I played Monettes for a few years, and did truly enjoy them. For a number of reasons, I no longer play them, but have nothing but good things to say about them.

The mouthpieces do tend to even out a lot of inherent intonation issues on a few horns that I have. And yes, they do require you to play differently!!! You simply cannot pivot or adjust very much at all or else the mouthpiece basically says "no more". Gimmick? Not for me...

Also... the mouthpieces are very carefully machined to fit perfectly into Monette trumpets. He does not have a Bach, Yamaha, Getzen, etc sitting around the shop to custom fit it to that horn. So, it may not play as well as advertised on your horn.

To each his own... I also play Hammond now and really enjoy them, but can't really say anything bad about Monettes. They are worth the money to those who find them to be worth the money.... I went to his shop last October and everyone was really nice, and had a great day there.

That's all!
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oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

Constant Sales Pitch Center

Kent

loweredsixth · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:05 am Post subject:

trumpetDS · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:07 am Post subject:

"constant pitch center" is Monette's marketing term. When I first heard the term I thought it was bunk. I then played a Monette for several years. When I switched to another brand, I was shocked at how the pitch can be so greatly affected by the mouthpiece, the G on the top of the staff in particular. The two brands that I have found play exceptionally well in tune are Monette and GR- which is ironic since Monettes have short shanks and large throats while GRs have long shanks, small throats, and longer bores. I think it is probably finding the right combination and balance. All this being said, I still prefer the sound of my Kanstul BMV 1.5 copy which I have been playing for seven years now. I have to make a lot more adjustments with regards to pitch and work a little harder, but the sound is my guide. It keeps me honest

Jocker · Veteran Member Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 192

bagmangood

Matt Graves · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject:

The key to the right mouthpiece for you is the three Ss: Sound, Size and Shape make the difference. Words relate more to marketing and propaganda.
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JakeUND · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 589

It matters how you approach playing them. I have quite a few friends that play Monette and sound great. For me, I love the rim and feel of my B4S but it has just gotten to be a pain with the huge throat and backbore. I would rather get by on something a little easier I guess. But if it works for you, by all means use it, but expect to try it longer than a day or two to decide whether it's great or before deciding against it.
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