Pilczuk Leadpipe on a Schilke

Lboretrumpets · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2010 Posts: 288

Just curious.... has anyone put a Pilczuk leadpipe on a Schilke before? If so, did it do anything for the horn, in regards to sound, intonation, or response?
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Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

Give Rich Ita, the source, a ring. If he's put one on a Schilke he could put you in touch with the customer.

bigmoney1103 · Veteran Member Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 121

I have owned some trumpets with Pilczuk leadpipes on them but never on one of my Schilkes. The horns which I have put Pilczuk or tried them on were okay. My large bore Yamaha was the best. Pilczuks get many good AND bad reviews.

I know I have not answered your questions at all but it has been about a year since I posted and thought I might offer a suggestion. Call Steve Winan (drvalve.com) and ask him about his custom leadpipes. He worked at Schilke for many years and knows those horns up and down. He can steer you in the right direction and is a great guy to talk to. My phone converions with Rich Ita (and two visits to his shop) were less than helpful and I was not very impressed. His Great Dane is awesome though.

Anyway, call Steve. He has a killer leadpipe and tuning slide for the S42.

Blake

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

I agree I would call Rich and I would call Dr. Valve. I like Accusonic Leadpipes so far but my data set is (1) trumpet. Not exactly a large sample size!LOL

The idea for a design like the Accusonic was first proposed by Master Schilke himself. So the idea was around a while it just took the right mind to take it and run with it. The Accusonic idea is the best idea ever for leadpipe design but their is still no perfect design. Their have been some models where they where not able to make any improvement on at all. Mr. Callet's first Expand a bore design did not respond at all to the Accusonic design and the inventor was not able to make anything better that improved on Callets design. So while they work close to miracles for some horns on other's they do not make as large of an improvement. Plus some players just can not adjust to them. For me it was an easy transition and my then 11 year old soon to be 12 year old also had not problems with it. He leaves that trumpet at school and practices on a none Accusonic trumpet at home.

If I had to guess I would think that you would not notice as large of an improvement on a Schilke as you would most other's.Mr. Schilke was cutting edge in his time and a real innovator. He mapped the nodal points of his leadpipes long before anyone else ever thought to and made all kinds of corrections to the each leadpipe.

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Leader%20Pipe.html

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/Practical%20Physics.html

Start with those then expand out.
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Trptbenge · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject:

I have used Pilczuk leadpipes on an Olds before and have seen some success on other horns. Rich Ita will ask you what you are trying to acheive with the leadpipe. I would expect that you would find that they would be less help with a Schilke - as far as intonation goes then many other horns. Schilke was ahead of his time on the nodal points.

I remember that Larry Black, of Leather Specialties, told me that Mr. Schilke had mentioned to him that he had mapped out the nodal points. I think it would be a waste of money to use them on a Schilke. Plus, it would most likely negatively affect the resale value of the horn.

Mike
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p76 · Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject:

TupeloCOTA · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:38 am Post subject:

Anybody have experience with the Pilzcuk pipes on Benge? I have a 3X+ that is badly flat from D to F near the top of the staff.

Brian Moon · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:00 am Post subject:

I had red brass X pipe, C trumpet length put on a D-2 that greatly improved the center , helped the intonation some and gave it a richer sound with better projection.

I have seen them put on Schilke Bbs with the same results.

Brian Moon · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:03 am Post subject:

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961

Reynold Schilke did much research on nodal points in the development of his trumpets and wrote many articles about the subject, but it was Gene Pilzcuk who holds the patents on the Pilczuk Accusonic leadpipes that he first put in production before his son Rich took the business over [and moved it to Georgia] later selling the whole works. My experience with the Pilzcuk pipes that I installed on many brands of horns is mostly favorable. They seemed to help horns with intonation problems more than another that played better in tune. Of course the blow depended on which pipe you put on, many options available there. I remember the 13 chamber pipe didn't work so well [for me] as the pipe with seven chambers, at least on my DEG Signature and Bach. When I started my own line of trumpets [Scodwell USA], the pipe I use works so well that a Pilzcuk wasn't an improvement. I tried many before deciding to stay with my original, straight tapered pipe. If it ain't broke you know.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns available only from Washington Music Center, call Lee Walkowich at 301.946.8808

Trptbenge · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:58 am Post subject:

I agree with Tony except that Rich would be surprised to find out he was his son. Gene did have a son but they sold the business to Rich Ita a few years ago. His shop is about four miles from my office and I'll have to mention that to him when I see him.

Tom Turner has posted previously that he had one put on a Strad and it really helped it. But as Tony mentioned if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

Lboretrumpets · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2010 Posts: 288

Great ideas, everybody... Steve Winans didn't even cross my mind! I realize that it sounds odd, but I was thinking of adjusting the blow on my Schilke, and I figured while I was at it, I might as well go for something that would improve the horn. I'm looking at more options than just Pilczuk as well, but I had never had direct experience with them, hence the thread.
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forrest · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:01 am Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:14 am Post subject:

Mike, You may not have known that Gene's son is Richard Pilczuk of Roswell, GA. That's where he carried on his fathers work until he sold the business to Rich Ita.

Like Tony, I had some experience with Gene's pipes back in the 80's, when repairing in Madison, WI. We had better luck with the 18 step or X models on Bach trumpets. The 12 step models were better suited for trumpets with slower leadpipe tapers like Schilke, Yamaha and Benge. Gene even came to Madison as our guest lecturer for a custom brass workshop hosted at Ward-Brodt Music. In addition to trumpets we installed Gene's prototype copper F-Horn pipe on a Conn 8D for UW Horn professor Nan Becknell. Gene made six custom G euphonium pipes for us to install during the rebuilding of the DEG/Wilson euphonium bugles for the Madison Scouts Drum & Bugle Corps.

At the same time Wayne Tanabe was doing quite a bit of work with Gene fitting trumpets with Pilczuk leadpipes for players in the Chicago area.

Gene was very willing to work with anyone interested in applying his designs on any wind instrument including bassoon bocals.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

Brian Moon · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject:

If you want the best deal on a Pilczuk pipe go here:

http://shop.ebay.com/trumpetland3coa/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

If you don't see what you want ask John (trumpetland3coa) for it. He knows Pilczuk pipes inside and out.

James Becker · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:42 am Post subject:

The pipe on ebay Brian Moon posted a link to would be a good match for a Schilke. As mentioned in my previous post Gene's original 12 step design pipes work better on trumpets designed with slower rates of leadpipe taper including Schilke, Yamaha and Benge.

Besides the code 41-60 (.341" opening .460" exit) the alloy will also have a direct effect on blow resistance and sound. Yellow brass will be the clearest sound while gold brass will sound more covered/darker and blow with greater resistance. To get the same blow resistance in gold brass it is recomended that you increase the opening by one size +.002" (43-60).

I have several of Gene's original umarked prototypes and a couple of used Pilzcuk Accusonic pipes available for purchase should anyone be interested, just drop me a message.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

tommy t. · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:28 am Post subject:

TupeloCOTA · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the info Tommy T. This horn has been in a closet for 25 years and I think I need to look into PVA. Funny, I didn't remember having intonation diffulty, then maybe I wasn't paying attention back in college (too much rehearsal band, pizza and beer)

Danbassin · Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:13 am Post subject:

Bringing back an OLD thread, as I've recently come into possession of a Pilczuk lead pipe for the Bb side of my (Schilke - actually a Jeninga prototype) picc...and so far, very good!

I'll have more to report after playing the horn a bit more, but so far it's the most fun I've had playing Bb piccolo, period. I also enjoy that I'm able to use a trumpet-shanked mouthpiece for this side of my horn, which was never the case before. (For reference, I do play a trumpet-shanked A pipe, and use Monette piccolo mouthpieces on the Bb and A side, so instrument+mpc length issues normally associated with a trumpet-shanked mpc on the Bb side of a horn designed for cornet mpcs is not an issue for me.)

The blow is open, the sound colorful, and the range from top to bottom is rather excellent. Only critique for the moment: D above middle C (as in the note above the second ledger line, if we were playing a Big Bb) is noticeably flat with the 1st valve, but right where I need it with 1+3.

More to follow, if anyone else has had experience with Schilkes or other piccs fitted with these interesting 'leader' pipes (to use Ren Schilke's term).

Happy buzzing, up and down the horns...

-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD