AARRGGHHHH What a mess!

A.N.A.Mendez · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: AARRGGHHHH What a mess!

Why why why would someone screw up a nice horn in this manner?
Oh, and fire the "repair man" OY........

http://cgi.ebay.com/1953-Olds-Bb-Silver-Recording-Trumpet-LOS-ANGELES-/120642625591?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item1c16dc6037
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oldblow · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject:

Aw, they just got this horn in the wrong store category and price. They should have put it in the "Repairman Special" category with a $9.99 start. That's all.

I restore period southern furniture, and I can imagine the standards of their repair source. It would sell much better as a fixer-upper.
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Red Rock · Regular Member Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Posts: 19

reminds me of those "alucard" specials we used to see on ebay frequently...I die a little inside every time I see one of these.

RogersBrass · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject:

The seller is an idiot...but with a repair like this...what else is wrong that is unseen ?
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Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

Well, I do not see a problem with alternative finish's when done properly but this was not done properly!!!! Bead Blasting is not a good way to hide flaws I think it makes them more vissible actually because you look harder for them.Same thing with the quality of the work! I mean WOW that has to be the worst solder job I have ever seen and the patch's are dreadful! I mean really for $1000 asking price you have to do it better then that. On top of that on a horn like this particular model a bead blasted finish is not what the target market for this horn is looking for frankly. So you have to know the market and what they expect. Plus if he had done any research at all he would have found out that Mr. Kanstul could make him a new leadpipe for it. He could have easily used an after market silver leadpipe like a Bach and reused the reciever and 99% of buyers would never have known!

If I ran across a horn like that I would replace the leadpipe and send it out for buffing and replating at Anderson's! In it's current state it is basically a parts horn!!!Assuming their is nothing else wrong with it that we do not know about it would not be too hard to fix it but man not for $1000 that is for sure!

I have bead blasted horns but not Recording for crying out loud!!! All the ones I have done have either been student horns or Pro Horns not sought after and not worth collecting they are players. I am not a huge fan of destroying rare collectors items and rare high end good playing horns! It is about like putting Spinning Rims on a Ferrari or a Old 1958 Bath Tub Porsche just because you can do something does not mean it is always a good idea!LOL
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject:

Indeed. Putting a bead-blast finish on a really nice vintage horn, both a crime and a shame. Even if it's done right.

Maybe on a Olds Ambassador - post LA. Perhaps acceptable.

Hey, if you want such a finish on your Lawler, Xeno, Kanstul (if they do that), or whatever, fine. Just leave the old-time beauties alone.
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ConnArtist · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject:

Personally, I think it would look REALLY cool if they took a ball peen hammer to the bell for that vintage hammered look I've seen on other old Oldszesez.
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RogersBrass · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject:

Maybe that's the original finish
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camel · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 am Post subject:

apart from the leadpipe, where somebody tried to remove the mpc with too much force, I don't see a problem.

What is wrong with it? The plating? come on now guys, we all know that silver and gold are better platings then laquer. Silver and gold last much longer, so they protect the instrument better and longer.

WTplayer · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:13 am Post subject:

camel · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:57 am Post subject:

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:59 am Post subject:

That's Olds "Finsh No. 2". It's an option that appears in many Olds catalogs and price lists over the years, so the finish is probably original, not an alucard-style rebuild. I like the look of the tri-metal lacquered ones 10 times better, though.
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supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

RogersBrass · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:08 am Post subject:

In 1953 all the instrument companies offered that finish.

Kirk's comment about the bead blasted finish is ludicrous....more ignorant commentary spreading false information on TH. If it was recently bead blasted..it is a very careful job. It requires a significant amount of care and work to bead blast a horn as part of a vintage finish silver touch-up. The average repair tech would not get into this work...let alone the repair tech who worked on that leadpipe.

This finish looks original..but it has been chemically cleaned..and that is a normal repair tech job. The finish looks like it has the normal little scratches and nicks found on vintage horns. It doesn't look like it has been banged around....so the valves could be in good shape also.

I would love to have this horn...I would trash the leadpipe and install one of my machined pipes...but the price is a bit high.
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Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

How is it ludicrous? I have bead blasted horns not at all a hard job rather easy really as the media does all the work. It does not hid all flaws well. I think many people look 10X closer when they see it on a horn because they assume it is their to hide flaws and often it is used for that reason by those not up to hand raging and buffing! I do not see where it improves the value of a nice collectible vintage horn at all! I would bead blast a modern Bach Stradavarius in a made minute but if anyone came in and asked me to bead blast their "Number 46" Bach I would send them on their way I would not do it! Just because a customer wants something does not mean you have to do it for them pandering to a customer's every whim can be a real mistake because once you start that where do you stop? Do you start to churning out junk because that is what your customer asked for? No at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and stick to it!

A lot of art that is classic has to be repaired and they could easily radicaly alter it but they do not. Why? Because some things are historical and beautiful and should be left alone for future generations to appreciate! Their will never be a time when a mass produced trumpet is not available to bead blast so why disgrace classic collectors items in that way. I do not mind people chaning out leadpipes, maybe having a second set of tuning slides made with Saturn Keys as long as they perserve the origanls so that it can be put back right. No one is going to pay $1000+ for example for an olds recording with sheet bracing all over the horn, bead blasted finish in satin gold and silver with heavy caps. Well i would hope no one would pay a $1000 for that but they will pay $3000+ for a Harrelson maybe with that same description! Different horns, different reason for owning, different markets!

Parts of that trumpets silver finish look like someone tried weakly to bead blast it to me. It does not look well done at all. That said if it is the original finish that might explain why it looks so bad.
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DavesTrumpet · Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject:

RogersBrass · Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject:

Kirk,

So you have a business restoring vintage trumpets for customers..?

Show us some examples of your work.
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Tuba · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 164

That finish is very common for horns from that era.

It looks original. It wasn't done poorly, it is just worn down from being handled and polished.

Lboretrumpets · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2010 Posts: 288

Soldering silver plated parts together isn't the easiest thing to do (the solder tends to bond to things it shouldn't bond to), but that is pretty ugly... the plating looks just fine though. I've seen a lot of older horns with that finish, it looks nice when the whole horn has it and the engraved areas are polished silver.
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