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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Valve Guard or No Valve Guard? |
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I usually use one on my horn but I'm wondering if it interferes in the vibration of the horn or not. Is it better to protect the plating and have a little comfort or not. What are your thoughts? Thanks. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I've never needed one. My hands haven't worn the finish off any of the valve section on any of my horns - even my well-used Yamaha Bb that I've played since I got it in 1990.
For me, they're uncomfortable and unnecessary. That's just me, though.
Some valve "protectors" actually cause greater wear on the finish on the valve sections. I've seen it. A colleague of mine had a pretty new looking trumpet - the finish was almost perfect. When he took the valve guard off that he had put on when it was new, the whole area was badly worn.
Also, some materials promote tarnish on silver plate. Leather is often one, but not always.
Vibration? Beats me.
As far as cosmetics? I think they look lame. To me it's like having the plastic protector on the couch or those one of those "bras" on the front of your car.
I guess if your hands are acidic, then you need some sort of solution, but if not - I'd just skip it. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Nuck81 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2010 Posts: 154 Location: Western Kentucky
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I just bought a trumpet from Quality Brass that had one on it.
I thought it looked asinine and took it off. I'll probably end up giving it to one of my kids at the school... |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Just use a nice handkerchief instead. |
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Scott42486 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 529 Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I actually use them and probably always will. I make sure to use only the Leather Specialties or Dillon variety though as they have a liner to prevent wear from the protector. Note though, my hands are REALLY acidic. I can eat through some lacquers in under a week. Silver plating isn't that much better off for me either. _________________ Bach/Kanstul Frankenhorn
Warburton Mouthpieces |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Scott42486 wrote: | I actually use them and probably always will. I make sure to use only the Leather Specialties or Dillon variety though as they have a liner to prevent wear from the protector. Note though, my hands are REALLY acidic. I can eat through some lacquers in under a week. Silver plating isn't that much better off for me either. |
That's a good reason to use one.
Personally, I'd use a handkerchief before a valve guard, but eating through plating and finishes quickly is a good reason to use something. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Ed Lee Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 2156 Location: Jackson NC 27845
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Everyone is complaining about acidic hands and I believe I've the solution to the problem. Just dust your hands with baking soda before you pick up your horn. Too, an open box of baking soda in your case when you store it might help keep it sweet smelling. You may have to recycle an old talc or baby powder container to transport the baking soda so that you can reclose it. Baking soda neutralizes mild acids. |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Ed,
Very valid point - in fact, if your wet hands were acidic, baking soda should start to fizzle when in contact.
If, however, you have more enzymes on the surface of your hands than an average person, baking soda would not help a lot. |
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chrisf3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 346 Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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I used to eat through trumpet after trumpet so I started using a hand guard. What I found was that the guard actually made it worse! The acids in the sweat seemed to be soaked up by the leather and then held against the metal valve casing. At first it helped, but in the end it was worse.
Combine that with some of things I've learned since going to Wayne Tanabe at Yamaha - the extra weight on the valve section is not helping with resonance at all. Your best bet is honestly to ditch the hand guard and wipe the fingerprints off of your horn after playing it each time. I started doing this several years ago and my horns look like new. I get laughed at for polishing my horns every time I play, but it does work! |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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This is definitely one vote in favor of epoxy lacquer... nothing hurts that stuff!
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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brassjunkie Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2009 Posts: 399 Location: Aotearoa
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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IMO anything you put on a horn can make a difference to some aspect of how it plays, response, sound etc. I used to use a rubber protec valve guard....till it was demonstrated to me by a well known professional player that it changed the response of my horn for the worse. _________________ Cannonball 789RL
KMI Golden Flair
Conn Director Coprion Bell
Besson Sovereign Flugel
www.jazzinspired.blogspot.com |
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davidkoch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 1298 Location: Everywhere
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I used to use one, and I liked it. I saw no adverse playing affects at the time. For some reason that I cannot recall, I no longer use any. Now when I even put one on a horn it makes a HUGE difference. My horns are now losing plating, but I don't care, because frankly I would rather have a well playing horn that might need to be replated, or replaced sometime in the not-so-near future than a trumpet that doesn't play well for sake of the finish. _________________ Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic. |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Holding with a handkerchief can change the sound of the horn, too, making it less zingy. |
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Blue Trane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 669 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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I can wear out a Bb in 5 - 7 years so now that I have a 43* from the early 70's that I really like I want to do everything I can to delay having to replate it. I use Leather Specialties valve guards and Osmun (same thing I think) and I take it off the horn every week or so and put a new one on while I put the used one through the wash. I wipe down the silver or exposed brass when I change them. I also put tape (clear packing or electrical) on the worn areas of the horn that aren't protected by the guard.
I greatly prefer to play a horn without a guard but I'd like to play this particular Bb for twenty or more years instead of 4 - 5. |
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natetpt Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 139
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I use one more for comfort than protecting the plating, havn't noticed any adverse playing effects yet!!
Nate |
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Hack001 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 1685
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I used one for about 10 years. I had one of the leather specialties full cover guards. Loved it. Believed that there was no way it could affect the sound. Until I took it off. Could be just me or my head, but the horn rings more without it. So I don't use them anymore.
FWIW, the Leather Specialties guards have a plastic layer in between the velvet and the leather preventing moisture built up in the leather from transferring to the horn, so those would probably be best if you have corrosive skin. _________________ Practicing is for the insecure. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: |
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For laquer and matt laquer horns i always use valve leather gard but on silver horns it dont work at all for meafter two days of use the silver under the gard turns to black .
I just clean the silver with a soft cloth before i put the horn in the case and thats it.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Ed Lee Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 2156 Location: Jackson NC 27845
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: | Holding with a handkerchief can change the sound of the horn, too, making it less zingy. |
And if holding any of my brass horns with a handkerchief doesn't affect my sound any worse than it did for "Pops", I'll not worry ... and really I don't think my hands are that acidic, and if so, I think as much as I wash them and apply my lanolin as a balm, it just doesn't seem to bother me at all. Yeah, chlorinated water is very mildly acidic. I think long fingernails chip at many lacquers and probably at silverplate (don't own a silverplated horn anymore). |
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chrisf3000 Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 346 Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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One other thing - slightly off topic, I suppose - is that Hagerty's Silver Spray is amazing! If you haven't discovered it yet, check it out. They sell it at Dillon's and other places in a large blue can.
I guess what I'm saying is it's not too late to take that sucker off, spray it down with some Hagerty's (to polish and protect, of course) and then keep it shiny and protected by wiping it down afterwards. Your horns will look like new much longer. |
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trombahonker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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If you choose to use a valve guard, make it a point to remove the guard at least once a week to wipe off the casing. "Stuff" will get between the guard and plating, and if left between for a long period, will "rub" and damage the plating. A good valve guard (Leather Specialties, etc), that is washed regularly, and who's instrument's valves are wiped regularly, will not damage the plating.
My few $.02
Aaron _________________ Trombahonker's Practice Studio on Youtube |
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