Yamaha Xeno vs. Bach Strad vs. Zeus G vs. Conn V1

[GenevaProp]

I deducted that these are all fine horns in the $1000-$1500 price range. Now if you had to buy one of these four and it was the last trumpet you would ever own which would it be? For all types of playing Jazz, legit, salsa everything. Pretend they were all priced the same. Include the type of mpc you would use?

[donovan]

If these four were my only options I would probably choose:

Vintage One
Xeno
Strad
Zeus
_________________
Donovan Bankhead
donovan@erniewilliamson.com
www.erniewilliamson.com

[Pete]

I'd have to agree with Donavan. Of the four choices, the Vintage 1 is all that they say it is. It also comes with the extra tuning slide, and modular bottom valve cap system, worth over a hundred and thirty or so dollars. I played a few of these at the NY Brass Conference last Spring. If I hadn't recently purchased the Schilke B1, I may have been swayed to buy one.



Pete

[pushyred]

I've never played a V1 or a Zeus, but from what I've read on the TH I'd probably pick the exact same order.

[_PhilPicc]

I've never played a Zues. Most of my trumpet playing is legit.

Strad
V-One
Xeno
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

[TPTXC]

Hey I guess whatever works for you is the best horn. I just have to say that when I bought my bach, I tried 3 diferent V1's and was not impressed. The sound was very thin (which surprised me considering I was using my Curry 1 1/2 BC). I also tried 2 different Xenos (reveresed and regular leadpipes) and was also not impressed. They did not play OR sound any different than my Mark II Yamaha that I wanted to get rid of!
_________________
Brian Montgomery
Bach LR180S-72 Bb
Yamaha 6445HSII C
Curry 1 1/2BC
Curry 50m or 3c

[Jarrett Ellis]

I agree on the Conn Vintage One... with the extra tuning slide it is a nice versatile horn for just about everybody... Next however I'd go with a Bach... with proper testing of course... if you get a good one their awesome horns. I played like 5 Xeno's in a store once and I just really didn't like them to tell you the truth. I thought the sound was dead and stuffy. Just my opinion though. I've never played a Zeus.
-Jarrett

[Bartok]

Bach Strad
Xeno
V1

I've never played a Zeus, but I am not a fan of Kanstuls at all and that is who builds the Zeus. Also, I hear that the Zeus is more of an intermediate horn...along the lines of a Yamaha 4335G. Not looking for flames on this, just going by what I have heard.

[gzent]

Lets put a stop to the myth that the Zeus Guarnerius is an intermediate horn.
It is as much a professional horn as any Bach Strad, Schilke, Conn or Xeno.
Unless you have played one, then it is pointless to offer your opinions.

I would pick the Zeus over a new Strad for several reasons. First, the Zeus is made
in small numbers by men who have been making professional tumpets for decades,
that has not been true of Bachs since Selmer bought them. Second, I like choices
and competition, the more builders out there, the more competition and the more
likely that you can find a horn to fit you needs. Third, Zeus is a horn for players
who don't want to follow the crowd and be pressured into comformity - you play it
because you made a choice, not because its what everyone else has. You notice I
didn't mention how it performs, that's because it plays and sounds like a really
good vintage Strad.

Now, if I could get a rare horn like a Mt. Vernon Strad for the price of a Zeus I'd
take it because it is valuable and rare.

I have not played a Xeno or V1, so I can't compare.

Greg

[jgadvert]

I've played all these horns and overall, as an all purpose horn, it is the Vintage 1 at the top.

Gzent:

Enjoy your nice Zues(as you know, I've "really" tried it and given a highly favorable review). You should try the Vintage 1. I'd be very interested in your opinion(it's a startingly,surprisingly premium horn). I think that the upcoming superhorn model that Zachery will introduce will give the Vintage 1 more of a run for it's money. I don't think it's even fair (to either horn) to compare the Zues to the Vintage 1.

[TPTXC]

I don't want to start a flame fest or an argument, but could someone please fill me in on what is so great about the V1's? I seem to be missing the boat on that point. I was really NOT impressed when I played it. Can someone who owns one please explain to me what makes them so special? Again, I am NOT trying to start an argument, I am simply CURIOUS as to what I missed when I played several different configurations and was not pleased with any of them.
_________________
Brian Montgomery
Bach LR180S-72 Bb
Yamaha 6445HSII C
Curry 1 1/2BC
Curry 50m or 3c

[E.D.Lewis]

I'd put the Xeno RGS (reverse pipe, goldbrass bell) at the top
then the V1 with the larger pipe (sorry can't recall the # - 43?)
All the new Bach's I've played have been dogs - I've played some older ones that were real nice, but their inconsistant quality is not a myth.

I play a XenoRGS and tested it against all configurations of V1's, finding it to be more responsive, more life to the sound. I had to work harder on the V1's to get the same sparkle in the sound. Not that the Xeno is "bright," just livelier. My main mouthpiece is a Bach 1 1/2C which works in most situations. If I need some more zing, a Monette LTB4L or GR 66M gets it (as would anything with a shallower cup I suppose).

I've not played a Zeus......

FWIW.......
_________________
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[trumpetrmb]

If it was the last trumpet I could ever buy for the forseeable future, I would play several of each horn and pick the one that stood out to me. That's what I did when I bought a C horn recently. It doesn't matter what brand my horn turned out to be, pick the one that plays good for you.

With that strategy in mind, you might have to leave out a Zeus. I don't know where you could try 3-4 of those at one time, and compare them with all the others at the same time. I'm sure the Zeus is a good playing horn in general, because several fine trumpeters on this forum own and play them. I decided not to try to do business with Alex because of, well, Alex. That was my choice. Others have had satisfactory experiences with ordering their horn and like the horn they got. If you find a used Zeus for sale, by all means try it.

In that price range, B&S challenger, a Stomvi, or a used Schilke may also be things to consider. Have fun!
_________________
"Sleep is for sissies"

[AverageJoe]

I have owned and played Bach and Yamaha, and I have tried out many of the V1 options. My fave right now is Bach -- I have an old 1968 large bore that I just keep coming back to, but they are all great horns. I really comes down to the feel/sound that works best for YOU.

I also tried a ZeuS C-trpt in lacquer (I think standard model -- no rose brass or anything). The darn thing played easier than my Bach C, !#$@!#%. This is definitely NOT an intermediate horn. Although I do not care for Alex/Zachary Music and their marketing tactics, they have a great product here (the horns are mfg. by Kanstul). If the Bb's are as nice as the C that I tried, then I may be selling off a couple of horns to afford one of these in my stable.

Good Luck!

Paul Poovey

[plankowner110]

I vote with the first reply by donovan:

Vintage One
Xeno
Strad
Zeus

[Lawler Bb]

1. Bach 37
2. Conn V1
3. Xeno RGS
4. Haven't played a ZeuS

[oneeyedhobbit]

Hello, I am by no means a trumpet expert, but I think I have some good insight in this problem, because I have extensively play tested three of the horns-the Bach, Xeno, and Vintage One. I unfortunately have never tried a Zeus, so am in no (fair) position to comment, other than by rumors I've heard. That being said....

The most important thing for you to do will be to try all three, preferably in different configurations, and different ones of the same configuration (particularily with Bach, we've all heard of their infamous inconsistencies). This will be the best way to truly find the best all-around horn for YOU, the one that best matches your personal sound concept. For me, it was the Vintage One. I played three different Bachs. The differences really startled me. However, one out of the bunch was a fine playing horn. Then I compared this to the Xeno. The Xeno was also a very very good horn in my opinion, and they were very consistent. Some people don't like this, claiming you lose the sound's "individuality." I don't buy into this school of thought (not looking for a flame war). Your playing will lead to individuality, the horn helps this factor only minutely. So, as I said, the Xeno is very good. However, both of the two previous were lacking something for me. The sound seemed too "generic" for me. It is hard to describe really, I was missing a certain "something," an intangible that I can't exlain-most musicians know what I mean. Also, the Xeno was a *bit* too stuffy for me, just a wee bit.

The V1 had all the great qualities of both of these horns and many more. I found the resistance to be about perfect (without reversed lead pipe that is, I lost too much center to my sound with the reverse pipe). The sound was exactly what I was looking for-perfectly adaptable, and just a gorgeous sound. I thought the standard yellow brass bell was an excellent, crisp, bright sound; the rose gives a very mellow smooth sound; and the Sterling gave me just a general all around beautiful sound. I ended up with sterling because for me, it was what you are looking for-an excellent all around horn. It fit right in between the yellow and rose brass sounds. It also had a special "color" to it that no trumpet (of any model) had matched. So, needless to say, I went with the Sterling belled Vintage One (plus, although this in no way affected my decisions, with the lacquer finish, its a beautiful looking instrument!). I highly recommend this horn, it compares to many pricier "super-horns" I've managed to try. Plus, coming with the optional rounded tuning slide and modular valve weight system makes the deal that much sweeter. They allow for even greater flexibility. Of course, one mans elixir is another mans poison (I forget the real phrase...) so you may have radically different results, but I cannot say enough good things about the Vintage One (as you are probably getting sick of by now, so I'll move on).

I forget who after typing all of this, but someone asked what they were missing with the Vintage One. What didn't you like? The blow, the feel, the sound? Did you try different models; different bells and/or lead pipes? I haven't met anyone who has been genuinely unimpressed with it, save for one person who finally admitted to me he was honestly lying because he couldn't stand to see that I had found a horn that outplayed his Bach Strad (no intent to bash there people, this was his comment, not mine). Maybe it just wasn't your thing, but I find it to be extremely impressive. As I said, other horns were also impressive, the Vintage One was just much more so.

[Zachary Music]

Please guys, you are way too kind. I am flattered but the ZeuS is no Intermediate instrument.
I am honored and humbled but the truth is that its nothing but a student trumpet made in the third world by slave child labor. They do a darn good job though. They are experts at making cheap student instruments look, feel and sound like top pro horns. It’s quite a trick wouldn’t you say?

I can tell you this. I had no less than 4 customers who were Conn V1 owners and after buying a ZueS told me that they like the ZeuS much better. I was told that had they known about the ZueS, they would not have purchased the Conn.

I may have mentioned before that I owned a Xeno and could always rely on using it to sell a ZeuS, every time they were played side by side.

The ZeuS Bb, together with the optional large-bore round slide is an unbeatable combination. I encourage anyone to compare it to anything on the market. The C ZeuS is probably the best C trumpet currently made. We sure got the design right. The C also with the round slide is phenomenal.

I don’t play to be second best. If I am not totally excited and blown away by a product, I don’t sell it. It seems that there are a lot of people who need to try a ZeuS and I wish they would. I will try to make some instruments available at these trumpet parties that will be going on.

A humongous ZeuS order will be in production in the next few weeks. This will also be the introduction of yet one more finish. Can you believe it? The Antique Silver. This will be a brushed horn, which is silver plated. Way too cool.

As for me, I am the most lovable fuzz ball you will ever encounter. Smart people take advantage of all my hard work and make the best purchasing decision by buying a ZueS.
Alex


Here is my latest testimonial regarding a ZeuS Bb Raw Brass trumpet I sent to NJ.

'Every time I pick up this new horn and play it for 2 or 5 minutes I put it down and say out loud to myself “what the hell is going on here?”. This is really a great trumpet and that is it! I am going home now (to practice)." Sean

http://www.zacharymusic.com

[ This Message was edited by: Zachary Music on 2003-06-27 16:05 ]

[TrumpetAdam]

hey Zachary, that factory tour is really neat on your website. I found the part about silver plating especially interesting. You claim that they are superior to Bachs right? yet they were replicated from one? that seems like kind of a contradiction to me. Anyhow, what if I am all the way in SoCal and I wanna play on one to see if I want to buy?

EDIT: oh yeah, almost forgot
Bach Strad (just seems to be the best fit for me)
Vintage One(I like these a lot too)
Xeno(a nice horn, but a LOT of backpressure)

(Never played a ZeuS, can't relate it)
_________________
Adam Zwebti

[ This Message was edited by: TrumpetAdam on 2003-06-27 16:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: TrumpetAdam on 2003-06-27 16:46 ]

[gzent]

JG,

I'd love to try a Conn V1, but I live in a small town and there are only two music stores
and they only stock (wanna guess?) Bach, Getzen and Yamaha. Also, I really can't afford to
buy another horn right now, my wife would flip, since I bought my daughter a horn in September,
the ZeuS in November and a used F. Besson C horn in Feb. Oh, and my youngest is starting
band in the fall and wants either a flute or a sax.

All things being equal, I think, for me, its important to go with the smallest company to foster
healthy competition and inovation.

Greg