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tom turner
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 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: The GBB Trumpet Section keeps "Flipping Out!" |
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Woo-hoo!
I learned at Monday night's rehearsal of the Georgia Big Band that Eric Duhon has ordered his own Flip Oakes "Wild Thing." Eric got turned onto Flip's horns here, then visited Flip last summer in Oceanside while on a business trip. I'm glad he could finally "pull the trigger." I'm excited for him.
This makes the THIRD player in this fine big band who is playing a Flip Oakes trumpet! These things get addicting due to how they play and sound. Ray loves his Celebration and I either play my Celebration or my Wild Thing . . . generally my Wild Thing though.
The fourth trumpet is playing a Kanstul 1500 after getting insurance money to replace his once pristine early Elkhart Strad lost in a horrible auto accident. Ironically, he too wanted a Wild Thing but the insurance company couldn't procure him one through their normal channels but could get him a Kanstul.
Gosh wasn't that long ago when we were all Bach players . . . although for me it has been ten full years.
This is a really cool development . . . and I wish it could have been four of four!
T.
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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Capt.Kirk
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like progress to me! Nothing worse then Monkey See Monkey Do! SO they are now making choices based on only what the products can do not the reputation or hype behind a name!
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dmb
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well Tom, you do have a full section of Kanstul horns. Congrats.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I've been lucky enough to play side-by-side with one other WT player and that was a treat. Four would be glorious!
Good on ya, Tom!
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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tptptp
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: | | Sounds like progress to me! Nothing worse then Monkey See Monkey Do! SO they are now making choices based on only what the products can do not the reputation or hype behind a name! |
Awesome concise post, Mr. .Kirk
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tom turner
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yep . . . playing with only just ONE other Wild Thing player can be memorable! LOL . . .
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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tom turner
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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"Monkey see, monkey do?" Are you serious?!!!
Actually Captn, good players sometimes want to try the horns of of other players. That's how we all find what REALLY works for each one of us. And players with seasoned chops know a great horn when they first play it.
Ray played a Celebration that Flip sent me to evaluate when he was getting ready to roll out that model. I've always loved the Bach 72 bell and thought it would be a great second model for Flip. I was so knocked out by the Celebration he sent that I decided to buy it, though I was NOT looking to buy another Bb trumpet! BUT . . . it was simply irresistibly good.
I'd also asked Ray to take it home and evaluate it . . . to get his opinion of the horn . . . and he REFUSED to give it back! He said, "Buy your own, this is the BEST horn I've ever played and I'm gonna buy it myself." I was shocked, for Ray is so conservative that he was still playing a pair of early Elkhart Strads (Bb and C) that he'd gotten when he went for his degree in music from Iowa around 1965. I never thought he'd ever buy another horn period . . . but he's said since to anyone who will hear that he's never encountered a horn like that Celebration, and that he wished he'd had it all through his years as a player.
Thus . . . I had to order another Celebration for me . . . but I was glad Ray had finally quit fighting his two early Elkhart Strads and discovered what he'd been missing.
Rick, who plays the Kanstul, wanted his own one too, but couldn't get the insurance settlement to procure him one after his pristine early Elkhart Strad got demolished. Like Ray, his early Elkhart was new when he got it to go through getting his masters in music back in the '60s.
Again, umm . . . another "monkey" playing another "monkey's" horn? Hype? No, just getting to experience and appreciate the differences.
Ditto with Eric, though he wanted a Wild Thing. Eric is a very strong player, a young bull so to speak, and he's gonna love that WT he has on order. He fell in love with the WT after playing mine.
You see . . . players (who who know their way around a horn) appreciate a great horn when they discover it . . . .and can understand the benefit of spending a gob of money to get something outstanding. BTW, he wanted a gold plated one, but gold prices are so high right now that it currently adds $1,500 to the price of one vs. silver. OUCH! I'm glad I got mine when I did back ten years ago.
And . . .
The fella below discovered the same a couple or three years ago, after "Crazy Nate" on this forum turned him on to Flip's horns.
HOWEVER, it didn't stop Arturo from asking to play MINE a few weeks ago. In this photo, he's wringing out MY 2000-made, gold plated Wild Thing . . . the horn that I simply HAD to have when I first played it.
BTW, you can see his SECOND WT, a custom-engraved, gold-plated one, in the background.
From the shocked look on his face when he lit up my WT you could see he still enjoys playing other great horns . . . and mine is a great horn indeed . . . and even more impressive in HIS hands!!!
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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royjohn
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: The GBB trumpet section keeps "Flipping out" |
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Tom,
I think you misunderstood the Capt.'s post. He often talks about folks buying Bachs because everyone else does and that's what I think he meant by "monkey see, monkey do." He is saying that WT players are listening to the horn and buying it because of what it can do, not because of its name.
Maybe the Capt. will chime in and tell us whether I have this right. It's just that when he posts a nice concise post with which some of us might agree, I hate to see him trashed for it.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
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tom turner
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, upon re-reading it you might be right! Hope so.
These are special horns and they ain't cheap, yet those of us who have bought them do so because of how they sound and how they play . . . and I'm overjoyed when someone like Eric play one and decide they can't live without one!
Thanks for writing!
Tom
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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TupeloCOTA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Tom,
You used to be a Benge guy. How is the blow on the WT compared to a 3X or 3X+. Thanks.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| TupeloCOTA wrote: | Tom,
You used to be a Benge guy. How is the blow on the WT compared to a 3X or 3X+. Thanks. |
I'm sure Tom will jump back in here. In the mean time, I thought of a metaphor that I think is a good representation of the difference.
Think that you have had an Ace bandage on you elbow for months. You've learned to use your arm and do everything you need to do with that "support" you get from the wrap. Then, after the doctor says your arm is healed, you take off the bandage.
The feeling is dramatic at first. The freedom might be a little startling and makes you wonder if you can actually manage simple tasks without the restraint. But, after a few minutes of trying out your "new" arm, you find that it really is easier and you believe you will be able to trust yourself.
In fact, you get the idea that, as you regain strength, you will be able to explore doing things you never considered before. You realize just how much effort it has taken to overcome the restriction of the Ace bandage and begin to rethink and refocus how you do things.
This is how the Wild Thing feels every time I spend extended time on my 5X and then switch.
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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TupeloCOTA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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OK, I know you're crazy about the horn. Is it tiring over extended playing? I tested a 991 Mariachi Kanstul not too long ago and was really surprised how open if felt, not at all like the .438 that is says on paper. So I'm figuring out that you can't tell everything from a spec sheet. The .470 seems large on paper, but I'm wondering how it compares to ML horns in general. I probably won't get an opportunity to try one any time soon due to geography, but down the road I am thinking on a new horn along these lines.
Thanks.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| TupeloCOTA wrote: | OK, I know you're crazy about the horn. Is it tiring over extended playing? I tested a 991 Mariachi Kanstul not too long ago and was really surprised how open if felt, not at all like the .438 that is says on paper. So I'm figuring out that you can't tell everything from a spec sheet. The .470 seems large on paper, but I'm wondering how it compares to ML horns in general. I probably won't get an opportunity to try one any time soon due to geography, but down the road I am thinking on a new horn along these lines.
Thanks. |
It's actually easier over the course of a long gig. The idea of getting rid of the "Ace bandage" is that there is a base level of effort, in every standard design trumpet I've ever played (Benge, Bach, B&S, Kanstul, Calicchio, Harrelson, etc.), expended doing something other than making sound. The Wild Thing and Celebration don't have that. The effort the player expends goes efficiently toward making music, so the player uses less energy to get the same sound. This is why it's so hard for someone who has never played a Flip Oakes trumpet to accept the enthusiasm players like Tom and I try to convey.
I have watched as Flip himself began to tire and miss notes on one horn, then pick up a Wild Thing and go another hour without trouble. I have, on several occasions, taken my Benge down to my church for personal practice and played it exclusively long enough to begin to tire, then bring out my Wild Thing and, with a few seconds of adjustment, go another 1/2 hour before feeling the same amount of fatigue.
I love my Benge. Flip could tell you of the several times I've called him to talk about doing a WT-style 5X or 6X, only to "get real" after playing my two horns side-by-side again and realizing that there is no reason, other than sentimentality, to make such a trumpet. What would it do that Flip's horns don't do already? I can never come up with anything other than it will look like a Benge instead of a Bach/Kanstul Signature model.
Okay, I have to admit that I still want to complete the "Byron horn" I was working on with Zig and Mr. Autrey just before meeting Flip. I know it wouldn't be a better design than the WT, but it would be mine. I just can't justify the investment in a horn I probably won't enjoy playing as much.
When you do get a chance to play a Wild Thing, make sure you have an hour or so to sample it, so you can get acquainted with it properly. The immediate impression is one thing, but the longer-term realizations are more valuable.
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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TupeloCOTA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Brian,
How big a difference is there between the two main tuning slides and how does it affect the characteristics of the horn? I'm kind of intrigued now with idea of having a horn you could play lead on and change the slide and play combo.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| TupeloCOTA wrote: | Thanks Brian,
How big a difference is there between the two main tuning slides and how does it affect the characteristics of the horn? I'm kind of intrigued now with idea of having a horn you could play lead on and change the slide and play combo. |
I have all four braced slides plus the #1 and #4 J slides. Each of these change the blow and acoustics. I have three favorite combinations of slides and mouthpieces that give me three significantly different trumpets in one.
For what I do and where I do it, the #1 slide with my 5-O mouthpiece gives me the grandest, full-spectrum sound. I get the richest combination of brilliance and fullness from the bottom range to the top this way. I use this combination for stand alone soloing.
The best combination for big band section work, small ensemble (where I could easily overpower the entire group) situations and contemporary worship style music is the #3 braced slide with my 5-L mouthpiece. This combination compresses the sound to where it is close to what my Benge puts out, but with more bottom end to the sound.
For those times when I want my sound to be intimate, or really dark and luscious, I use the #1J slide with my TCC-5 mouthpiece. As an amature, this combination limits my range to pretty much the same as a flugelhorn. That's okay, because this mood doesn't usually require high notes above A, anyway. If I need more range, but want the richness, I can go with the 5-O and J slide.
Can a WT do lead? I think so. I'm no lead player, but the only negative comment I've ever heard from lead guys is that the sound is too broad and doesn't "float out over the section" like they want. The problem with that theory is that when I heard Arturo's band at the Vibrato, last October, I found it much easier to hear Arturo's WT than Wayne's Yamaha when they did Maynard/Waynard, or when Wayne was up on stage playing lead.
It had nothing to do with Wayne. It's just that the sound of his horn was much narrower and I was off center about as far as I could get. Arturo's horn could be heard from every seat and certainly didn't lack core. It didn't matter whether he was playing away from me or at 90 degrees, his WT filled the house.
Anyway, if lead playing is the bigger priority, Flip's Celebration might be more conventional in its sound projection. That's why Flip agreed to produce it.
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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tom turner
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TupeloCOTA wrote: | Tom,
You used to be a Benge guy. How is the blow on the WT compared to a 3X or 3X+. Thanks. |
Hi,
I'm so grateful Brian already chimed in. He has his Masters in Multiple/Magical Metaphors and does such a great job "s'plain-nin" things to folks.
How is the blow of the 3X or 3X+ compared to the "Thing?" Well . . . it is different as Brian said. His analogy was great. However . . .
What I liked most about the Benge though, is magically enhanced on the Wild Thing! I'm talking about the instant response and the ease of play vs. that "other" famous main-line trumpet that folks are programmed to buy. Heck . . . but I'm not here to judge or criticize that horn!
No, let's get "Wild" for a second.
The WT is the easiest to play horn I've ever put to my lips, and I've been playing continuously since '61. It speaks instantly whether you are playing at the volume of a whisper or a roar and the horn doesn't beat you up or force you to really work to make it speak like most horns.
Thus, I feel I can go all night long on a difficult gig and not be on the ropes at all. Right after I got my WT I sent it back to Flip to undo a home-made valve alignment its 90 day prior owner gave it for some reason or another. I timed this loss of the WT to a tight time window without gigs.
WRONG . . .
I got a call on a Saturday afternoon that went like this . . .
"Uh Tom, this is __________ from Macon. I screwed up and booked a gig needing a trumpet player with our combo and forgot to call. Uh, could you do the gig."
"Probably," I replied, "when is it."
"Uhhh . . . in THREE HOURS, the flaky band leader replied. "The gig pays $____."
Now he'd done it . . . dropping a money figure I simply couldn't turn down!
Reluctantly I took the job but told him I didn't have my "wonder horn." I learned that evening what a long night it can be playing a really "good" custom Strad w/Pilczuk leadpipe that I'd once thought would be my "final" trumpet . . . after discovering the dramatic difference.
Man, that horn made me really WORK . . . and felt like it had a baby sock in the bell too. I avoided playing most of my stuff in the double high whatever range just to play it safe, and I'm glad I did!!!
I was so glad when my WT, with a free new precision valve alignment came back to me . . . and I'd never consider playing a gig again without my WT or Celebration.
Hope this helps,
Tom
PS: I also have the many slides offered to dial in the sound and blow of the WT and Celebration even further, and use specific slides based upon the venue's acoustics, the repertoire of the material, the various other trumpets to blend with or a "certain" sound I'm wanting that evening.
The #1 slide is like the sound of a 9' concert grand vs. a seven footer. A tad bigger, fatter, richer than anything else out there. If I was a mere soprano, the #1 would turn me into Beverly Sills!
The #4 slide is also a favorite (both in the braced and J versions. SLIGHTLY tighter blow but nearly as big and rich. The J is great for looser slots and bending notes, whereas the braced slides are great when you want the horn to "corner" on a dime like a roller coaster on rails. (Geez . . . "Holy Metaphor, Batman!")
Ditto with the #3 and the J3 . . . great slides when I want a little tighter/brighter blow or more compact sound. It is a great lead combination, either braced or J . . . and again depending on preference of execution/repertoire.
WHAT'S IN MY "THANG" USUALLY? The good ol' conventional braced #1. From a perfectly speaking whisper to a roaring fff, its got the baddest, richest trumpet sound on the planet. You should have seen the look on Arturo's face when he put down his engraved WT (with the #2 slide he prefers with that big ol' 3-sized mouthpiece he uses) and played the same thing on my WT with its #1. The bigger, fatter sound made all three of us jump (my wife included). However, only Arturo can make my Wild Thing sound THAT big and bad!
Again, hope this helps!
Tom
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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tom turner
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| TupeloCOTA wrote: |
How big a difference is there between the two main tuning slides and how does it affect the characteristics of the horn? I'm kind of intrigued now with idea of having a horn you could play lead on and change the slide and play combo. |
Hi,
Although I just explained some of the question you asked, I'll add a little more.
Through the years I've successfully played my WT in lots of lead opportunities.
There are two schools of thought when playing lead:
1. MANY folks want a tight, bright pattern to the sound so they can use the horn as a "lazer beam" of sorts that will part the hair on a gnat's butt at 100 paces. Many folks like this "projection when playing lead and feel they are getting their sound out more efficiently (and thus easier). The narrower "spread" is like shooting a rifle vs. a shotgun.
2. Another school of thought is that a lead player should be heard by all the folks in the venue, not just the gnat's in a narrow-width dispersion beam directly in front of the horn. Umm . . . this also means that the other musicians on the stage around and to the sides of the lead player who ascribes to this school of thought can HEAR the LEAD player's interpretation clearer and better! The wider "spread" is like shooting a shotgun vs. a rifle.
I like both approaches, but for the strong, confident player, maybe #2 is the better approach. WHEN the entire band can hear you clearly and fully you are much more likely to get complements on how rich and well you sounded that night.
It happened to me when I was playing a gig down in Florida the first year I owned my WT. I was playing a NYE gig with a Florida big band in a venue they'd played for years. I'd usually get hired to play that NYE gig years on end.
The year I went from my Strad to my WT, the players in the band said I'd never sounded so good as I did on my new horn, and they said they could hear my lead clearer. That night I was using the braced #3 slide, my preferred slide when playing lead on a WT. The sound with that slide is a tad more focused with a tad more punch . . . but still has that fat sound to die for! It is a lot like a shotgun with a tight choke for a tighter pattern, if this makes sense . . . but one in 10 gauge vs. a 12 gauge shotgun . . . the best of both worlds!
IF the desired sound is a tight lazer . . . I'll use my Celebration and choke it down with a #3 or a 3J. Even tighter? A #2 works for me . . . but I prefer a big, bold, fat sound that FOR ME means a WT with a #3 on lead.
T.
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet |
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adagiotrumpet
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Joined: 31 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: | | Sounds like progress to me! Nothing worse then Monkey See Monkey Do! SO they are now making choices based on only what the products can do not the reputation or hype behind a name! |
Well I guess the Capt. is off his meds. Again. |
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trumpetchops
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: |
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"I was so glad when my WT, with a free new precision valve alignment came back to me . . . and I'd never consider playing a gig again without my WT or Celebration."
If I get a wild Thing, will I get a free valve alignment?
I'm sorry, it's just that after an interesting story you threw in a commercial break.
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Monroe Ct. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| trumpetchops wrote: | "I was so glad when my WT, with a free new precision valve alignment came back to me . . . and I'd never consider playing a gig again without my WT or Celebration."
If I get a wild Thing, will I get a free valve alignment?
I'm sorry, it's just that after an interesting story you threw in a commercial break. |
Digital Valve Alignment(including rotational)? Yes!
Bore Correction? Yes!
Noisy valve correction? Yes!
Mechanical function correction? Yes!
Finish flaw correction? Yes!
Playability inspection? Yes!
All this included in the one low price (compared to other boutique horns).
But wait, there's more!
If you call right now...
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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