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trumpmac
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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How about this site?
http://sumanent.com/cruisegottalent.php
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trpthrld
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| RandyTX wrote: | | So all cruise directors are not like Julie on the Love Boat? Say it isn't so. |
With the quality of the food we were served, you could say we were all on "The Love Handles Boat."
I'll tell y'all how they let their hand slip about crew food. As I mentioned, it's all about the ratings they get from the pax. I've also mentioned that this particular ship would, once a month, throw the crew either an afternoon BBQ on the crew deck or a late-night crew party (free beer & wine & softs). Some months we got both.
For the month of December, the company had a fleet-wide competition for the crew called "A December to Remember", to see which ship could get the highest over-all ratings during what is one of the busiest periods for cruising (Xmas & New Year's Eve cruises). The winning ship would receive a $5000 contribution to that ship's Crew Welfare Fund.
They never told us exactly how we fared, but we were told it was so good that they were going to give us an entire "Crew Day", with (quoting either the Hotel Director or HR Manager - I forget who) "Upgraded food for ALL meals - breakfast, lunch AND dinner."
"Upgraded food." Two words I'll never forget. Kinda put the whole crew food dining experience in a new light.
| RandyTX wrote: | BTW Tim, I'm starting to get the feeling (after pages of posts) that you didn't enjoy the cruise.  |
An interesting point.
Please don't get me wrong, and I can see where it might seem that I'm a complainer. I do try to work (play my horns & music) as efficiently as possible (less is more). I do not mind hard work...I do enjoy challenges and working hard things out. I get tremendous personal and professional satisfaction out of performing hard music and make it look like I'm doing nothing at all.
But "busy work" simply because you're not doing anything at a particular time...
A big reason why I don't take many wedding gigs is the prevalent attitude by the bride / families / wedding planner & coordinator of "As long as you're here, would you mind..." and no mention of extra compensation for the extra work. Yeah...let's see them try that with caterers, flower shops...
The attitude on ships is "as long as you're here you WILL do..."
I took the job with several specific goals in mind (pay off some debts, the on-going play my tookus off every time I played, see some places where I hadn't yet been & to revisit several that I had, meet new people, make new professional connections, come home with a nice buffer in the bank, etc).
Those goals I did attain.
I also got the added bonus of having the true love of my life with me for THREE WEEKS of TOTAL BLISS. Those weeks made a whole lot of the other things we had to put up with a lot more bearable.
But the things that were constantly working against me to do the most basic job I was hired for...the general treatment of the crew...the food...the attitudes...the inconsistency of leadership (told to do one thing by someone in charge then told to do it differently by someone else - next to zero communication in management)...the way those above you cared only about their careers and not providing quality supervision (not once did I ever feel, if I really needed it, that I would have my supervisor's backing)...working with casts who aren't just barely lounge acts...they are barely Laughlin lounge acts...those are things that no ship contractor is going to tell you about.
We had a CPA (Crew Program Administrator, a very high-responsibility & authority position) who hated musicians. When the issue of us having to pay for the sweaters came up, she screamed at us how she hated all the spoiled musicians, how SHE had to pay for all her uniforms, how WE worked only a few hours a day (she actually worked less), how we were ALWAYS complaining.
When I pointed out to her that we have the expense of tuxes & other performance clothes added to the cost of instruments, years of private lessons, college...she stormed off, continuing her rant on how musicians ALWAYS say that, that she was tired of hearing it and that she didn't care...
The last 2 months I was on board, we had another CPA who was in a clique that included the dance captain & his boyfriend (a sports staff guy), the production manger & his girl friend, and one other. They would get together almost every night, get drunk & then plot on how to make life easier for the cast & more miserable for the musicians.
They came up with the plan that, because the musicians had such an easy schedule (yes, except when compared to the cast), that we were then going to start pulling extra duties while in port, specifically wheel-chair and assisted pax duties. To condense this, it would mean heavy lifting and taking away our time in port. No thought was given to that the male dancers were all in much better physical shape than most of the musicians (nor the short hours they worked every cruise).
All that came about shortly before I finished, but I don't think it was implemented.
What gets me is things do not have to be this way on ships. With the economy being what it is and the availability of excellent musicians you'd think they could be more selective & hire better players. Guest acts would always complain about 2 of the orchestra musicians on a regular basis...but they'd never say anything to the head office...because "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."
As a result, everyone suffers.
More consistent and qualified supervisors and administrators are most definitely needed. When I was in the AF band at March AFB, there was about a 2 1/2 year time span when it was the best assignment imaginable. The band was playing great, the commander & his staff were excellent, everyone did their job expertly & efficiently, there was very little time wasted on silly or stupid or unnecessary things..because of all that the band's morale was soaring!
Then we had a change of commander & some shifts in staff duties..and it was pure hell.
All it would take is common sense, qualified personnel, true respect for the people who do the actual "hands-on" work, and it could be what it was - a great gig where everyone wins.
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PhxHorn
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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I noticed that you said other duties were assigned to musicians at times. But this site (on the 'life on board' page) says that's impossible!
http://sumanent.com/lifeonboard.php
The only responsibilities you will have other than performing are participating in safety and passenger drills. |
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JonKratzer
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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On a side tangent, any cruise guys on here have a copy of "ship of darkness" shorts floating around? Can't seem to find it, and it always made me laugh.
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trpthrld
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| PhxHorn wrote: | I noticed that you said other duties were assigned to musicians at times. But this site (on the 'life on board' page) says that's impossible!
http://sumanent.com/lifeonboard.php
The only responsibilities you will have other than performing are participating in safety and passenger drills. |
I know. Notice the word "safety" and how it's attached to "passenger drills." "Safety" is an all-encompassing term, and absolutely NOT limited to only passenger drills.
As I mentioned about the contract that you sign on the ship, there is a caveat that says words to the effect of the Cruise Director can assign you additional duties as they see fit and as needed.
Again, I don't have the exact phrasing as they don't give you a copy of your contract.
Information given to me was that supposedly the master agreement in the Miami offices states that musicians / cast will only be used for musical duties and emergency situations (kinda blows the hell outta the plot of making musicians do wheelchair duties).
But, as mentioned before, we also had to do "barrier cleaning" / ship sanitizing (in the event of any kind of virus breakout) and serving the pax food in the buffet. I personally do not remember seeing that caveat on my contract and again - when you are given your contract to read and sign is at a time with a lot of activity going on and there is the overall attitude of "The sooner everyone signs the contracts we can get you on the ship and to work."
On my last two contracts there were wrong numbers in what I was to be paid and I refused to sign it until that was straightened out. I received a LOT of attitude for that, and it took several days to get things correct. At one point I was told "If you don't sign it right now we will let you off the ship when we're back in port in 2 days."
I will admit because of that I was distracted from other details in my contract, such as the "additional duties as assigned by the CD" portion.
And there was the one embarkation day where, because of the virus outbreak the crew were restricted to the ship and we all had to help with cabin linen exchange / cabin sanitizing. I will say this that everyone in the crew was involved...however, some much more than others (read as the cast got the easiest duties while the musicians hustled hard).
And the several week period where we had to serve food in the pax buffet because they were not allowed to touch any of the serving utensils. Again...lemme bring up that even tho we had to do the serving...we were never given gloves to wear. Kinda cancels out the "no spreading of germs / safety" angle, eh?
But yes, there is the very good chance you will be told to do more than just play music and life boat drills and the only option you'll be given is do it or pack your bags.
This is a good chance for me to broach areas that some could say are very sensitive, so let me say up front the following are purely statements of actual observation.
Equal work regardless of gender? Nope. When there is hard, physical labor to be done, as in the day when all crew helped with cabin linen exchange, only men did the hard & heavy lifting. Women were given easier / less physical duties.
There are certain cultures / nationalities on the ship who will almost always be given the more menial / "hands on / hard work" duties. For instance, it will almost always be Chinese working in the ship's laundry. Years ago, that part of the ship was referred to as..."The Chinese Laundry." And they used to have their own mess hall. Now it's just called the laundry. I'm not sure about the dining situation.
The nationality that seems to get the bulk of the hard work is Filipino. Often referred to as "blue suits" or "blue boys" (because their work uniform is blue overalls)..man, those guys work their butts off, and for a whole lotta hours every day.
You'd never see an American doing the jobs they do.
Here's a case in point about the separation of nationalities. My first roomie was an American. He was also the bass player in the top-40s quartet. Like me, he & his bandmates had normal life boat drill duties. When that band finished their contract, they were replaced with an all-Filipino top-40s quartet, and my new roomie was the bass player in THAT band. You would think that it'd be a straight trade of life boat duties - quartet for quartet - right?
Nope.
My new roomie and his bandmates all had extra life boat duties...as in they were on a "launch team" - the team that actually launches the life boats. Although everything with life boats is done mechanically, it's still more labor intensive, and potentially physically dangerous.
Again - PLEASE remember those are statements of actual observation and not a reflection of my personal tenets...but it sure seems rather segregationist and sexist and stereotypical with quite a hint of profiling added in.
New roomie & I talked about this, and he said it was ok, it was what is always expected of them.
Y'all can come to your own conclusions.
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trpthrld
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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This shows that things CAN be good for the crew.
Got an email from a musician buddy who was on my ship for about 2 months. He just started a 6-month contract on the Azamara:
"Well, day number three . I'm still waiting for the bad news. It's as good as it gets, of course by ship standards...The cruise director is a bit of a prima donna but I stay away from those guys anyway.
No GOLD program here so after 3 days I'm done with training.
Full access to the Windows Café [pax buffet] at any time as long as there is no line. Frankly, I went only to the staff mess as it's way better than the Windjammer on the Enchantment; and yeah, there is milk, and blueberry muffins, croissant, good choice of yogurt.
[he mentions this because there was hardly ever milk, muffins or other decent breakfast pastry for the crew on our ship].
All the shuttle busses are free [this might be because he's on a European / Mediterranean cruise], no seadays in the first month, we leave around 9 p.m. midnight normally, today first overnight in Corfu and they have canceled the first show because everybody leaves the ship!
Two more overnights in Venice in three days. First show yesterday was a good test for the band, tough show, a trumpet player I'm sure you know, I just can't remember his name for now; funny, after the rehearsall he said it was the best rhythm section he worked with on ships in 18 years and it was my first time with this drummer, young but solid.
Good WiFi @ 8 cents a minute in the cabin at any time. As soon as I find something wrong, I'll come back to you, it will probably come from the cruise director, bye for now..."
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www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
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PhxHorn
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Pax = passengers?
By the way, I understand they emailed you some music and had you play it over the phone when you auditioned. Any chance you still have it and can post it so others can see a sample? |
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JonKratzer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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yes pax = passengers.
Posting the music online...since it's a sightreading thing, might give people an unfair advantage if they audition, also would make it a dishonest audition just my $0.02.
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trpthrld
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| PhxHorn wrote: | | By the way, I understand they emailed you some music and had you play it over the phone when you auditioned. Any chance you still have it and can post it so others can see a sample? |
Don't have it anymore but it was the shout chorus to "Shiny Stockings" (don't remember if it was the standard stock or a watered-down ship arrangement) and the opening section to the "Dream Girls" overture, which I think might be a production show on one of their ships.
All told about a minute worth of playing. "Dream Girls" had a couple of E's that ya had to pick out with no run-up.
As you are playing it all by yourself, they were listening not only for note accuracy & style & articulations & pitch & dynamics (all that music-kinda stuff), but for how well you kept time...'cause there's a good chance along with playing Lead you'd also have to, at times, also be "Mr. Metronome."
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JonKratzer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
'cause there's a good chance along with playing Lead you'd also have to, at times, also be "Mr. Metronome." |
^^^^^
I second,third, fourth, fifth, and sixth that.
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J_Mase
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| JonKratzer wrote: | | Quote: |
'cause there's a good chance along with playing Lead you'd also have to, at times, also be "Mr. Metronome." |
^^^^^
I second,third, fourth, fifth, and sixth that. |
Sh*t, I do that on land.
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OrchestraTrump
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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VERY informative.
Thank you.
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humor
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Another question Tim: How much time/space/opportunity was there for personal practice? I imagine that playing in a challenging (and it sounds like on occasion erratic) ensemble situation calls for a solid maintenance routine (or something) of some kind. Would you be willing to share your thought on this?
Thank you very much Tim, and thanks for all of the really valuable information you've shared thus far!
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trpthrld
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| humor wrote: | Another question Tim: How much time/space/opportunity was there for personal practice? I imagine that playing in a challenging (and it sounds like on occasion erratic) ensemble situation calls for a solid maintenance routine (or something) of some kind. Would you be willing to share your thought on this?
Thank you very much Tim, and thanks for all of the really valuable information you've shared thus far! |
I do talk about that in the thread, but I realize there's a lot of stuff there to go thru.
You would think on a vessel that's almost 1000' long & over 100' wide & 10 decks high that there'd be places to play your horn in either a private or semi-private setting, but it ain't necessarily so. (cue Gershwin music)
On the ship I just finished with, because of the design, there was no place I could practice without taking the chance of disturbing other crew or passengers.
There was almost always something happening on the stage, so practicing in the wings was a very-seldom possibility.
The pit was always locked unless we were in it for a rehearsal / performance. The pit also was right next to pax cabins, and was where the magician stored all his equipment & travel cases.
The production office was also the cast dressing room. That's where I could play without a mute, but there was almost always stage crew or cast in there using the computer terminals or adjusting costumes. That room, too, was right next to pax cabins.
So the vast majority of my survival practicing (that's what I called it because it was just enough to do the job without hurting myself) was done in my cabin with a practice mute (which I hate using).
And because of tight scheduling of activities on the stage, there was often something going on right up to and many times well into our scheduled rehearsal time (you NEVER interrupt Bingo on a ship) for the different guest acts. So practicing right before a rehearsal was often not possible.
And dig this - no one on the ship cared. No one cared what you had to do in order to do the job you were contracted to do. The response was always either "What - you need to practice? Can't you just 'play'?" or "Nothing we can do about it - work it out on your own as best you can...but you ALWAYS need to be ready to play."
But...did the cast always get enough time to warm up their voices & legs with no hassle or ever told they could never take it easy and always had to give 100%? Do I need to answer that one?
On the ship I did 2 years ago, the ship design was very different. There were 2 enormous cast dressing rooms, both of which could be completely closed off and were nowhere near any pax cabins. You could practice there 24 / 7 and no one cared...unless there was something happening on stage, and even then, you could blow but just not overdo it.
It used to be, years ago, that you could go out on the rope decks and practice (rope decks, front & tokus, are where all the mooring ropes are stored & coiled up). But because of current safety guidelines, those areas are now always closed off except for trained personnel in the execution of their duties while docking the ship.
There are 2 short answers:
1. Depends on the design of the ship, something you'll have a hard time finding details about before you actually get onboard.
(b) The attitude of those above you, who either know what the deal is about practicing or who couldn't care less.
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Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
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trpthrld
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I did want to bring up the opportunities on a ship to make some extra money (yes, there are a few).
RCCL owns two private ports for their ships - one is a peninsula in Haiti called Labadee, the other is a very small island called CoCo Cay, in the Berry Islands region of the Bahamas.
Labadee is completely manned by local residents.
But, on CoCo Cay, there are concession stands where pax can get snorkeling gear, float rafts & a few other nice beachy-type things. Those concession stands are manned by ship crew, and I think they pay $10 an hour. I don't know if that's cash or if it's added to your twice-monthly pay. If it's the latter, I do not know if you get taxed on it.
A problem orchestra musicians had with working CoCo Cay was we usually had a rehearsal right in the middle of port time.
There are several ways on the ship to make extra money.
The hardest gig to get is assisting the Port and Shopping Guide. That's the person on the ship who knows everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) about what each port has to offer in the way of stuff to purchase - anywhere from watches & jewelry to linens to clothes, liquor - you name it. They're also usually fun to hang with and always happy to answer questions about where to go to get what. One guy hipped my gf & me to the best place to get some pearl earrings. She was happy which, of course, got me VERY happy later that evening...but I digress...
Anyway, the P&S Guide always has one assistant, often 2. Those duties include stuffing maps of each port with flyers for all the ship recommended stores, passing out those stuffed maps when pax are getting off the ship while in port, and assisting him during his P&S lectures, which happen almost every day on the ship.
Again, I think that pays $10 an hour. The assistants always seemed to be musicians or cast, probably because we have the time available and are not working 10 - 16 hour days like the rest of the crew.
The most labor-intensive extra job is assisting the cabin stewards on turnaround day with cleaning and preparing the cabins for the next cruise. You are up early and you are humping hard on this job. It also takes up almost all of your time in the ship's home port, allowing for little if any time off the ship before it sails.
I heard different rates, and of course they're gonna try to low-ball you, but generally it was $5 a room, and you had 15 - 20 rooms to do. That money is paid to you in cash by the cabin stewards (it comes from the tips they make from pax).
Those rates might not sound like much, but I know of a couple of musicians who had those jobs and they'd make maybe another $200 - $300 a month total, often in cash. Sometimes the work was hard and needed to be done quickly, but again - musicians, especially the orchestra guys, have a lot of free time. You could always tell what guys did that job, 'cause they'd be really draggin' later on in the day and were always in a hurry to finish the Welcome Aboard show so they could go sleep.
Over the time of a multi-month contact, it can add up to a nice bonus in your take-home pay.
I do not know about other cruise lines & the opportunities for musicians to make extra money.
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Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
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KRossum
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Tim-
GREAT thread. Thank you for taking the time to get all of this information "out there." I've already passed this link on to a couple of my students who are seriously considering ship life.
Hope to play w/ you again soon.
ONward.
-Kelly
(ps. I did end up w/ a new gig for the fall...)
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PhxHorn
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Who let the bone player near the engine room?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2277323/Carnival-Triumph-Disabled-vessel-wont-reach-land-Thursday.html#axzz2KkGZyasm
'Conditions are getting worse by the hour. Cabin carpets are wet with urine and water. 'Toilets are overflowing in the cabins, we are having to sleep in the hallways. Onion and cucumber sandwiches last night.'
Some passengers have no options other than bags or buckets for toilets with reports of 'raw sewage running down the walls'.
The news came amid claims that those on the ship have turned into 'savages' and are fighting over food, relatives said.
Yeah, but how are the musicians being treated? |
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trpthrld
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jazz9
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! I'm so glad I came upon this post. Just read the entire thread, top to bottom. I was hired in the second trumpet position on Oasis of the Seas for RCCL. I now have a much better idea of what to expect.
I am only doing 3 months, which I think is probably good, considering the situations you've described and the potential for getting down and depressed about the state of musicians on these gigs. I'm actually really looking forward to the experience and think it will provide some good perspective before graduate school.
Thanks, guys, for a really informative thread. |
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JonKratzer
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| Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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2nd trumpet on the Oasis is a good chair to have, but you need to be prepared for one thing. It's called parade. It's humiliating, if they are still doing the lollapalooza parade you'll want to shove the cruise director overboard. Otherwise on the Oasis you'll play Opening night Hairspray. Come fly with me is the other show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xlhbQUlF-g
If you get a chance to watch the summer in the city spot of the show (you have time to go into the audience) you'll enjoy all the acrobatics of it.
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