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chuck in ny
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: why does playing jazz trumpet make you want to sing? |
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i have of course experienced this but can't fully explain it. you could say that blowing a wind instrument puts you in the mood, except reed players don't succumb the way we do. could it be the way we blow the instrument?
pops, chet baker, et al... the compulsion is nearly irresistible. lack of voice hasn't stopped any jazz player to date either.
i suspect it's somehow tied in with the tendency in jazz for exuberance and joy of life... chuck |
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Uberopa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi All,
For me. it's usually because I've run out of chops! 
Cheers,
Brian |
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Adam West
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
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It shows a lack of knowledge of the classical world to specifically say jazz. I think trumpet players of all styles (classical, latin, jazz, orchestral, brass band, etc) tend to like to sing (even when not very good) because we play an instrument that is very good at mimicking the human voice.
But then again, not knowing enough about other instruments, I would be willing to bet most instrumentalists in general tend to want to sing their part. I find one of the best ways to figure out phrasing is to sing it. |
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oldblow
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Singing and playing are very closely related, regardless of the instrument. Also in the mix, is the ability to tap rhythms and play time correctly. The old Hindemith exercises built musicianship for all of us taking music theory with Eckhart Richter at UGA fifty years ago.
The electronic availability of much music today might have eroded the perceived necessity of such skills, but real progress in musicianship still requires working with our body and using it correctly to make the sounds we imagine, and not just the sounds we remember and mimic.
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Bruin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:00 am Post subject: |
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My jazz chops, as limited as they are, have improved significantly since I've been able to sing the phrases that I want to play on the piano and trumpet. Simply put, if I can sing it, I can play it.
I sing a lot, but I don't sing lyrics; I sing jazz improvisation phrases over chords and I visualize what I'd be doing on my trumpet when singing them. A former jazz trumpet professor and I used to have fun singing select Freddie Hubbard solos. He had them down 100%, I was at about 80% -- those really fast rifts escaped me, but not him. All good fun, and an excellent learning tool as well.
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jazz_trpt
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Louis Armstrong was a street corner singer before he became a working cornet player. He kept at it because it gave him a chance to rest his chops (and also do a bit of mugging for the audience!).
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JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Bruin's post above hits the nail on the head. We need to sing solos we've
memorized, and this gradually leads to hearing the riffs we sing when we
improvise. I've been talking about this in the last couple of lessons on my
thread, "Jazz Improv, Jamey Aebersold". Memorizing solos, singing them,
then later hearing the licks in our heads while we improvise!! This is pure
gold!! Play what you hear in your head... that's art. 
Tom in Texas |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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The question is why playing jazz makes you want to sing. that's different from singing as a way to benefit one's playing.
I think the answer is that jazz is so much more linked in style and origin to our deep emotional need to vocally express our hearts. Other styles of music are much more closely dictated by the written page, so there is much less room to emote, but jazz purposely avoids the written note in order to open up the music in the inner player.
I think that singing is the language of the human spirit. We get close with the instrument, but the "climax", if you will, happens with the voice. As to the saxophonists not needing to sing? Maybe they get closer to the range of human emotion and don't need to "jump ship" and use the actual voice the way trumpet players do?
Good topic.
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Adam West
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | I think the answer is that jazz is so much more linked in style and origin to our deep emotional need to vocally express our hearts. Other styles of music are much more closely dictated by the written page, so there is much less room to emote, but jazz purposely avoids the written note in order to open up the music in the inner player. |
That's total BS, and you know it. I didn't know us classical players couldn't emote when we played, thanks for clearing that up. Oh, and I'll make sure to leave the music at home next time I get a jazz gig. You may be counting off autumn leaves, but I'll just play whatever comes to me.
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intrepidpooch
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam West wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | I think the answer is that jazz is so much more linked in style and origin to our deep emotional need to vocally express our hearts. Other styles of music are much more closely dictated by the written page, so there is much less room to emote, but jazz purposely avoids the written note in order to open up the music in the inner player. |
That's total BS, and you know it. I didn't know us classical players couldn't emote when we played, thanks for clearing that up. Oh, and I'll make sure to leave the music at home next time I get a jazz gig. You may be counting off autumn leaves, but I'll just play whatever comes to me.
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You're jumping on Shofarguy for answering a question specifically asked about jazz trumpet players in the jazz forum (and a good response at that). Chill out man!
P.S. You mentioned needing sheet music for Autumn Leaves, hmm...
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I play trumpet so I don't have to sing.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Adam,
I didn't say even one thing about players. I was talking about music styles. If you would actually READ what I write and not skip over it to concoct what you THINK I wrote, you might, just might come away with a different impression. I just seems like you don't want to.
That's too bad.
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Frustration? |
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chuck in ny
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | The question is why playing jazz makes you want to sing. that's different from singing as a way to benefit one's playing.
I think the answer is that jazz is so much more linked in style and origin to our deep emotional need to vocally express our hearts. Other styles of music are much more closely dictated by the written page, so there is much less room to emote, but jazz purposely avoids the written note in order to open up the music in the inner player.
I think that singing is the language of the human spirit. We get close with the instrument, but the "climax", if you will, happens with the voice. As to the saxophonists not needing to sing? Maybe they get closer to the range of human emotion and don't need to "jump ship" and use the actual voice the way trumpet players do?
Good topic.
Brian |
thank you brian you got me much closer to getting a handle on this. i play the trumpet because it very closely has the tone that replicates and expresses our human emotions, sadness and sorrow, joy and exuberance, those states that we bounce back and forth between, and really in the middle of it all pure love and heart.
so,, you're playing that emotion in a style that keeps you grasping for the next phrase spontaneously... improvisation and all that.
the next step in this emotional and irreverent muddle is obviously to sing what's in your heart. the whole improvisational nature suggests no boundaries.
i'm guessing that jazz players have deep emotional natures and the cold fish gravitate toward instruments that can be played with one eyebrow raised.
be a pretty interesting study, the differences in emotional nature from one musical style and instrument to the next? ..chuck |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| chuck in ny wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | The question is why playing jazz makes you want to sing. that's different from singing as a way to benefit one's playing.
I think the answer is that jazz is so much more linked in style and origin to our deep emotional need to vocally express our hearts. Other styles of music are much more closely dictated by the written page, so there is much less room to emote, but jazz purposely avoids the written note in order to open up the music in the inner player.
I think that singing is the language of the human spirit. We get close with the instrument, but the "climax", if you will, happens with the voice. As to the saxophonists not needing to sing? Maybe they get closer to the range of human emotion and don't need to "jump ship" and use the actual voice the way trumpet players do?
Good topic.
Brian |
thank you brian you got me much closer to getting a handle on this. i play the trumpet because it very closely has the tone that replicates and expresses our human emotions, sadness and sorrow, joy and exuberance, those states that we bounce back and forth between, and really in the middle of it all pure love and heart.
so,, you're playing that emotion in a style that keeps you grasping for the next phrase spontaneously... improvisation and all that.
the next step in this emotional and irreverent muddle is obviously to sing what's in your heart. the whole improvisational nature suggests no boundaries.
i'm guessing that jazz players have deep emotional natures and the cold fish gravitate toward instruments that can be played with one eyebrow raised.
be a pretty interesting study, the differences in emotional nature from one musical style and instrument to the next? ..chuck |
I've done a little reading on how our minds work. Psychologists agree that we have a conscious mind and an subconscious mind; the proverbial left and right brain, or analytical and creative sides to our thinking.
When we are reading a book, we are using our analytical minds. When write a book, we use our creative minds. Authors often say, "The book wrote itself," or, "I had it inside. It just had to come out," as though the work had a separate life of its own.
The same is true, I think, when we read music as compared to when we improvise. When I started playing trumpet again about 7 years ago, I could not use my creative mind to play my trumpet to save my life! But, I determined to change that and set out to develop my ability to get into my "right mind", as it were.
Instead of reading a lot of music, I "worked out" a lot of music. I'd play songs that I knew (or sort of knew) and keep after it without music until I could play each song in a couple of keys. I worked out all the scales I knew patterns for as a foundation for playing melody, harmony and embellishments by ear.
I'm not a jazz player, but I like to play standards, ballads, hymns and worship songs. I now can use written music as a reference while playing by ear, but for awhile I had to choose one or the other or risk getting lost.
So, a stuff-shirt like me can actually learn to loosen up and learn his way around a horn, instead of just learning the written music. I was "singing" a few songs tonight from my Andre Bocelli "Amore" album and the theme from "Summer of 42".
For a couple of days now, I've had this "smolder" thing going on, so I set up my trumpet with the #1J slide and my TCC-5 mouthpiece. The flugelhorn got the Extreme X-5, though I've been using the WT 5FL a lot, lately. It took about an hour to wash away the nasties that have had me by the arm today.
Good times,
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Scorpion
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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it's the drugs
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chuck in ny
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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scorpion,
in my case it would have to be very much a delayed reaction from the drugs. the sixties absolutely scorched, and then about 40 years of sobriety, or however you describe my current state.
good theory though we've had many avid enthusiasts in the jazz genre.
...chuck |
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2-5-1
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Some of you guys are so sensitive.
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Craig Swartz
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: | | it's the drugs |
You got that one right!
Personally, I actually don't agree with the premise of the OP. Playing jazz has no greater or lesser affect on my "wanting to sing" than playing a recital of trumpet works, in the brass quintet and other small ensembles, or the symphony. Perhaps for some it's easier to actually "make music" with their voice if they don't have the technique and endurance to do so on the horn. Having done both a lot of singing and playing, and observing students in college who'll bail from instrumental majors to voice due to the practice demands in most studios, I've always felt singing for most people comes easier than playing an instrument of any kind. We were born with a voice and we use it in various registers in our animated speaking all day long. Not so with the trumpet, or violin or tuba, etc. We have to work at them. And no, I'm not belittling real professional singers because most of them have reached a higher level than most jazz trumpeters, at least vocally. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I keep looking at the Original Post and it seems clear to me that the question is about trumpet artists who also sing as part of their career.
Like the OP, I can think of several in the jazz genre, but I'm not aware of any in any other genre. Please instruct me of the ones I've missed.
Oh, and I keep looking for the assertion that players of other styles don't sing at all and I can't find that in the thread. So, what are you guys seeing that I'm not??
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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