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Protruding top lip



 
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Trumpet1Ohio
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Protruding top lip Reply with quote

I teach at a local music store and have seen all kinds of embouchure issues. One issue I've run into is when the middle of the top lip pops out, like a little button, when the student buzzes. The have a terrible time developing a nice focused sound and any high range.

Currently, I'm working with a freshman HS boy that has this issue. When he buzzes, the button is VERY pronounced. He can play up to a top space E, at best. Has no endurance and a poor tone.

I don't know what to do with this guy. I want to help him improve, but I'm stymied. Help please.
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Nos Mo King
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is made to order for Jeff Smiley's program...BE "method" addresses this phenomenon and following the instructions will take care of the problem.


Check out the BE forum and good luck.



rc
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Trumpet1Ohio
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nos Mo King wrote:
He is made to order for Jeff Smiley's program...BE "method" addresses this phenomenon and following the instructions will take care of the problem.


Check out the BE forum and good luck.



rc


I am familiar with BE...bought the book. I'm aprehensive about trying to do the BE exercises in a the studio at the store. They are just so unusual and odd sounding...particularly to the main-streamers on customers walking by. Also, I can't really demonstrate them well enough to inspire the kid to do them.
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Nos Mo King
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least show him the basic lip clamp. The lip has to know how to roll in and the lip clamp is a great start.

Eventually some sort of tuck in will have to occur to get his range up. (IMO of course)


As far as the unfamiliar sounds that BE can generate, try them anyway. They are just exercises, and not going to be used in performance....at least not right away!

These are exercises he can do at home and away from the critical ears of music store customers....

good luck
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Mr. Classical Trumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same issue w/ my playing. My teacher suggested it's too much mouthpiece pressure I fixed that and now I'm at a e,f And g all above the staff.I tried to convert back to the normal position after braces. Counldnt do it
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first started playing, my top lip used to protrude so far into the cup, I could only use Bach mouthpieces with out letters or I would bottom out in the cup. I used to play wiyh my bottom jaw pulled back so far,that the trumpet would point down almost like a clarinet. I had limited range,Eb above the staff, after 11 years of playing, 3 years playing in a military band,2 years in college, with no improvement in range. One day when feeling very discouraged at the age of 25 ,after I experimented with different mouthpieces, and found that when I pushed my lower jaw forward in an attempt to even my playing surface, my range increased by an octave. I also gained enduranceand used less pressure than before.

This was in 1975, I went from playing 3rd and 4th parts,to playing lead. I'm still playing lead today.
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Wilktone
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Protruding top lip Reply with quote

Trumpet1Ohio wrote:
I teach at a local music store and have seen all kinds of embouchure issues. One issue I've run into is when the middle of the top lip pops out, like a little button, when the student buzzes.


This issue may go away if you help the student firm the lips as if buzzing before placing the mouthpiece on them. Hard to say from your description, but it sounds as if the student may simply be twisting up the lips with the mouthpiece during placement.

The student's troubles are probably also related to other issues not necessarily due to the top lip's position on the mouthpiece. Sometimes by helping the student practice some other correction an issue like this may go away on its own.

There are other embouchure characteristics that you may find it helpful to learn more about. If you're curious, here's a link to a presentation I put together to help teachers become more familiar with how brass embouchures function and some of the variations that you'll see.

Good luck!


Dave
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By button...do you mean that you see the red portion of the players lips above the mouthpiece?

This is not good and leads to exactly what you described (poor tone, lack of endurance). Have the student try and put more of the top lip in the mouthpiece so to not show the red part. Or simply move the mouthpiece higher.

Playing in the red simply doesn't work. It may be the only embouchure that needs to be addressed at the physical level.

Don't teach BE....but you figured that one out yourself. All your apprehension is well placed.

I don't think pressure is the issue. I don't understand the wording of have the student "firm" the lips before playing....but the area under the mouthpiece should be supple and the firmness of the lip should be dictated by the sound.
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, my recommendation is to step up and do what works, and to heck with who is listening outside the studio. Please email me if you have questions.

Jeff
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Nos Mo King
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Don't teach BE....but you figured that one out yourself. All your apprehension is well placed.





Bushwa.....Teach what works....and BE does work.



RC
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