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youngblood92 New Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2011 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: Tone in the lower register |
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Hello everyone,
I have been struggling in my lower register for quite some time now, and was hoping some of you may have some advise or recommendation that would help me move past this.
A little background on my playing and the issue: I have been playing trumpet for about 8 years and I am currently working on a college music degree in performance. A few years ago, while still in high school, I had braces put on my teeth which cause me to essentially rebuild my playing from the ground up. As of now they have been off for a little over 2 years but I find myself still struggling to make sense of my lower register.
The meat of my problem is that the tone is very inconsistent. When I work on long tones starting at C below the staff and working down, I have a really difficult time keeping the note solid. The tendency is for the pitch to shake, fizzle out, and eventually stop.
If any of you guys need more information on how I play, please ask. This is an issue that has caused me to be very self-conscious for a while now and I am willing to try just about anything to ditch this habit.
Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate it! |
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zackh411 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 1886 Location: Saint Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Think "up" on the low notes. I used to have an abysmal lower register, but doing this helped that out a lot. I've found that I don't have to be nearly as open and relaxed as I used to think to hit low notes. We tend to play low notes flat, and high notes sharp. If you think "up" you improve the intonation. I've found that this, along with lower register timing drills using breath attacks, has improved my lower register dramatically. _________________ ~Zack
Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
Legit Piece: Yamaha Shew Jazz (18 Drill) |
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andybharms Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 633 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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I've always had a bad low register, too. Probably the hardest part for me were the days where it just didn't improve. Or even got worse. But after working on it every day, over the course of about a year, the days where things seemed better increased in frequency, until today, where it works at least consistently, predictably, okay (although still not as strong as other areas, and likely never will be).
Mouthpiece buzzing lip slurs really helped me. Bai Lin, Stamp... being really picky about the quality of the sound, and being methodical, ridiculously so...
Best, _________________ Andrew Harms, DMA
http://www.andrewbharms.com |
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HornnOOb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 897 Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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A million years ago, I played the tuba and so, I'm sort of acustomed to making a big open buzz in the MP. My lower register on trumpet was just so-so when I was using a 7c MP. When I switched to a 1c and focused on a big, open loose buzz (keeping my tounge lying flat on the bottom of my mouth), I have developed a fairly decent lower register - that is once I'm sufficiently warmed up.
All I can suggest is to keep expermenting with positioning of the MP and try to relax and make a big round opening with you lips and get your tounge resting on the botom. _________________ I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.
Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet
Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C |
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roynj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Players get accustomed to playing in the middle range where nominal air flow is required. Low tones require a hell of a lot more air to sound at the same loudness. So crescendo when descending and use lots of air flow. I'm not saying you have to blast the low notes, but do use plenty of air, or the notes will not be supported. You may have noticed you need lots more breaths when playing low. That's because the aperture on low notes is bigger and more air is required. So take a big breath boys, and let'r rip on the low notes. Seriously, you may find it helpful to think trombone on the low notes. |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7011 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:21 am Post subject: |
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My bottom register came in when two things happened.
1) I began to listen to Pop's McLaughlin tell of the problems with a tension-based embouchure and tried learning to free-lip buzz. I kept the idea in my mind of wrapping my lips around a coffee straw, as I did it. I learned to buzz a single pitch around low concert Eb and scaled down as far as I could go. I used a piano as a guide.
This not only helped take out all the tension I had left in my embouchure, it made my lower register resonant and easy. It also extended my upper range and went a long way toward tying all my registers together so that I didn't have to reset my lips as I went into the top, or came back down.
2) I acquired a Flip Oakes Wild Thing. True. The size of the bell taper has a lot to do with how easily a player can work the low register. I had been playing a Benge 5X, which is pretty good for the lower notes, but nothing drops down below C like a WT.
I highly recommend #1 to you. Pop's Trumpet College (google it) will get you started.
#2 is up to you.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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The Kraken Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 Posts: 391 Location: 805 Area Code
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
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For the low notes I think? and do beleive I think I keep the aperature the same, but what I do is move my jaw which I beleive makes a larger cavity for the air thus the increase in volume.
Does this make sense? _________________ 1948 Selmer Grand Prix-Model 23
US Air Force 1974 - 1980
Comback player start date: 9/06/2009
Comeback Player end date: Till Death Do Us Part |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: |
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A good way to shore up the lower register is with a systematic approach like the one on the Stamp book. I can't recommend it more highly. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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You probably need a bigger, and perhaps deeper mouthpiece.
Sincerely,
John Mohan _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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GrillHorn Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 104 Location: Chicago,IL
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Hi Youngblood,
I used to have a TERRIBLE low register, but a few things really helped me slay this trumpet playing dragon.
Firstly, and most importantly, STOP worrying/stressing about the low register.It WILL get better with thoughtful practice, and worry and fear will only stiffle this process. Secondly, I think mouthpiece buzzing, specifically the Thompson buzzing book stuff, can really help the chops get the right "shape" for this register(especially #4). Getchell exercises performed "ala breve" can really help solidify your middle/low register. Eventually, you can transpose these in lower and lower keys.
Id keep doing the long tones, keeping your ideal result in your head at all times,while letting your body figure it out. Listen to your favorite players play in this register and try to copy their sound. Also, if you have a trumpet playing friend with a great low register, ask him/her if you can trade off on some long tones.
Hope This Helps!
Nick _________________ Yamaha 6310z
Bach 3c
Karl Hammond Custom Lead Piece |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Begin at C# and C below the staff.
Is the C# clear? Can you articulate well to begin that note?
I'll guess yes. *
Work with those 2 notes.
Approach them with long tones, stacatto attacks, all dynamic levels, slurs, and then, lip bends.
Keep your chops from wobbling, but relax into the feel of these 2 notes.
Everything said above makes sense. I'm just saying begin at the start of the problem.
* if not C#/C, then maybe G#/G in the staff? Either way, begin there and explore what 's below. One note lower each week? Each month? Whatever. Take a little bite at first. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | You probably need a bigger, and perhaps deeper mouthpiece.
Sincerely,
John Mohan |
Good point. If the OP is on something substantially too small or shallow that certainly could contribute to the problem. If on the other hand he's on a more middle of the road piece I'd be loathe to recommend going bigger/deeper without first attempting to shore up his approach. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Be careful how you tongue below the stave. If you are using tu or too, you may be getting your tongue in the way. Those consonants can cause a very tubby unfocused sound. Use "tay" below the C and it should clean up any issues regarding the tongue. This what Herseth teaches.
Years ago, the great James F. Burke said in a clinic he gave at my high school that often low register problems are the result of a poorly functioning embouchure. I remember this because I had that problem at that time.
There is some excellent advice here. See what works for you.
R. Tomasek |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9014 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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A simple, non-technical answer? The roll-out exercises from The Balanced Embouchure book of Jeff Smiley.
When I was a trumpet player in my former life, I had to use a different embouchure for my notes below Bb1. Since returning to playing, I use basically the same position for all of the notes from F#1 up through the "lower notes" to, say, A2 and so forth. In other words, no change of embouchure for the lowest notes. I believe the roll-out exercises are primarily responsible for that. And I don't think of anything technical or coming from one school or another. I just do them and it works. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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youngblood92 New Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2011 Posts: 2
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you everyone!
All of you gave some really good suggestions and from todays practice alone I seem to be making progress in the right direction! I really appreciate it you guys! |
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fraserhutch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2548 Location: Oakville, ON Canada
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Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: |
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You may be playing too wide and deep a piece. _________________ Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
GR and Curry Mouthpieces |
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mathgeek Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 468 Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | You probably need a bigger, and perhaps deeper mouthpiece.
Sincerely,
John Mohan |
fraserhutch wrote: | You may be playing too wide and deep a piece. |
REALLY?!?! I love it when you get opposing answers to the same question. FWIW, I side with Mohan. _________________ Bach 43
Marcinkiewicz CG Personal (22 throat) |
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randolphTrumpet New Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2011 Posts: 9 Location: Provo, UT
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I like the stamp stuff and for more clarity read Louis Davidson Trumpet Techniques. It helps put some of the schlossberg/samp philosophies into English.
Randy |
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jbsmith1c Regular Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 39 Location: mexico
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Stamp, simply Stamp. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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fraserhutch wrote: | You may be playing too wide and deep a piece. |
And what were you hoping to accomplish with such a contrary statement? Confusion, perhaps?
Or do you honestly think that the majority of the time, trouble with the lower register is caused by playing a mouthpiece that is too big?
In all my years I have never encountered a trumpet player who made his notes below Low C sound better by going to a smaller or more shallow mouthpiece.
In retrospect, where I wrote "probably" in my first reply in this thread, I should have written "might". And as Charles pointed out, if the OP is already playing a normal sized mouthpiece that might not be the problem.
In my experience, to get a really good, full power G below Low C I need to be playing on a fairly big mouthpiece. The bigger, the better. The Mt Vernon 3C clone I'm currently using is about the smallest mouthpiece with which I can get a full power G or F# below low C. I can get a good, clear tone on those notes with something as small as a Reeves 43C - but not at full power levels. In my experience, it's simply a matter of having a cup big enough and/or deep enough to allow for the big vibrations that have to occur for loud, low notes. Either seems to work (bigger or deeper) for me. I can get a nice full sound on a 43B (deeper) or on a 1C (bigger). But the best is with both deeper and bigger (Bach Mt Vernon 1 or 1B). But then, there go the easy high notes...
It's all about making the right compromise.
Cheers,
John |
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