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1956 Martin Imperial--intermediate or pro model?


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Robert Rowe
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Chincoteague, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's upset? You?

I am compelled to offer correction ... as well as having the attitude of acceptance when I am in error.

I have a quote posted near my desk, which is a reminder when I think I'm getting too clever for my own good. It reads:

An error does not become a mistake ...unless you refuse to correct it.

The members of TrumpetHerald deserve to be informed. That's why most are here. I endeavor to glean knowledge upon each visit. Sometimes, I do not achieve that. Sometimes, I feel I can make a contribution, never-the-less.

~ r2 ~
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supportlivejazz
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Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 3757

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R Davidson wrote:
I guess I'll shut the hell up and go away. Sorry to have upset you.
I doubt that RR is upset by your post. He is justifiably sure of his info is all. I believe I read that he had himself miniaturized at the old Disney Studios and then was blown through the bores of all the Martin trumpet models just to see how they were built. But that may just be a dream I had while napping on my deck. Who knows. huh?
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Retlaw
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Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With some horns he would have had to make sure he was not wearing braces on his "trewsers"....nothing worse than getting caught on a blob in a wind tunnel...
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Robert Rowe
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 5364
Location: Chincoteague, Virginia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely you remember the flick "Fantastic Voyage", with the luscious Raquel Welch ?

A few scientists and medical experts were "shrunk" by the CIA (?) in order to be injected into the bloodstream of a prominent physicist that had an aneurism or artery-blockage, in the effort to break it up.

Sorta in the vein of where this THread is heading.

Perhaps (?) I could be teamed with Raquel Welch? For a woman born is 1940, she is still "quite the BABE".

btw -- Walter: I DO use the term, "trousers" ... NOT "pants".

~r2~
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bg
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Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 1292
Location: boulder, colorado

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Handcraft Imperial came in three models :

M: .435

2: .435/453 dual bore

3: .453/468 dual bore

The "M" bore is the only model to not be a dual bore. Handcraft Imperials were not made in a .453, non-dual bore configuration. The Handcraft Standard model is nearly identical.

The later Imperial models were intermediate horns, offered more cheaply
than the Committee, and the ones I have tried seem to share the intonation quirks of the Committee model.
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abundrefo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 1956 Martin Imperial--intermediate or pro model? Reply with quote

markp wrote:
I spent my Labor Day in Vintage Trumpet Heaven--Robb Stewart's shop in Arcadia, California.

I had a grand ($1,000) burning a hole in my pocked and had read on his website that he had some interesting old trumpets. I went there hoping to fall in love.

I tried:

1) 1969 Connstellation 38B
2) 1967 King Silver Flair
3) Kanstul Mariachi previously owned by high-note phenom Steve Reid
4) Three Olds Mendez horns
5) Olds Studio

I'm a wanna-be Chet/Blue/Art Farmer guy looking for a smoky-sounding jazz horn. I tried all of the above and was sadly headed for the door.

But as an afterthought, I asked Robb if I could blow on his 1956 Martin Imperial trumpet. He had a Committee there in the shop that I didn't even bother to try. I didn't have even close to the $2,000 that it cost.

I wasn't interested in the Imperial at all because it isn't a Martin HANDCRAFT Imperial. The posters here at the TH have told me that only pre-war Martin HANDCRAFT Imperials are great. After WWII, according to what I've read, the Imperial became an intermediate/student horn.

But....it was love at first blow! It perfectly matched the sound in my head that I was looking for. Even Mr. Stewart, who is usually very reserved, immediately commented. He had heard me on the other horns trying to get all dark and fuzzy. He said that that horn sounded very Committtee-ish.

For what I was looking for, it just blew all the above-mentioned horns away. It had intonation that was as good, or better than all of them. A smoky sound to die for and a fluid responsiveness that just knocked me out.

Mr. Stewart explained to me that the Imperial is the post WWII version of the Handcraft Imperial. I know that the pre-war MHI is a fantastic horn. I've owned one of them. But supposedly, after the war, the horn was demoted and lost the "Handcraft" in its name, and become a lessor horn.

I don't think that is the case with this 1956 model. I know I'm still in the honeymoon phase, and I'm trying not to be too giddy about the whole thing. But I'm trying to be very critical, and it seems to be just awesome. A sound as good as I could possibly hope for from the best-sounding Committee and above average intonation--a tiny bit flat on fouth-line D and low C.

Maybe Mr. Stewart was being a bit of a salesman, but he told me that he just doesn't get the whole Committee mystic thing. He believes that the Imperial is really just about the same horn.

Any other non-Handcraft Imperial lovers out there?


I've got one of Robb's PRE-War (1938) Martin HC Imperials just about three months ago. By that time, I was thinking if I should take this Imperial of one of his Committees. I think I did a great choice, including the "price factor".

Robb does an amazing job regarding bringing these horns back in action!

I'm sure you've got yourself a killer horn!

Congratulations!
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Pockettrumpet
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Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Re: 1956 Martin Imperial--intermediate or pro model? Reply with quote

markp wrote:
I spent my Labor Day in Vintage Trumpet Heaven--Robb Stewart's shop in Arcadia, California.

I had a grand ($1,000) burning a hole in my pocked and had read on his website that he had some interesting old trumpets. I went there hoping to fall in love.

I tried:

1) 1969 Connstellation 38B
2) 1967 King Silver Flair
3) Kanstul Mariachi previously owned by high-note phenom Steve Reid
4) Three Olds Mendez horns
5) Olds Studio

I'm a wanna-be Chet/Blue/Art Farmer guy looking for a smoky-sounding jazz horn. I tried all of the above and was sadly headed for the door.

But as an afterthought, I asked Robb if I could blow on his 1956 Martin Imperial trumpet. He had a Committee there in the shop that I didn't even bother to try. I didn't have even close to the $2,000 that it cost.

I wasn't interested in the Imperial at all because it isn't a Martin HANDCRAFT Imperial. The posters here at the TH have told me that only pre-war Martin HANDCRAFT Imperials are great. After WWII, according to what I've read, the Imperial became an intermediate/student horn.

But....it was love at first blow! It perfectly matched the sound in my head that I was looking for. Even Mr. Stewart, who is usually very reserved, immediately commented. He had heard me on the other horns trying to get all dark and fuzzy. He said that that horn sounded very Committtee-ish.

For what I was looking for, it just blew all the above-mentioned horns away. It had intonation that was as good, or better than all of them. A smoky sound to die for and a fluid responsiveness that just knocked me out.

Mr. Stewart explained to me that the Imperial is the post WWII version of the Handcraft Imperial. I know that the pre-war MHI is a fantastic horn. I've owned one of them. But supposedly, after the war, the horn was demoted and lost the "Handcraft" in its name, and become a lessor horn.

I don't think that is the case with this 1956 model. I know I'm still in the honeymoon phase, and I'm trying not to be too giddy about the whole thing. But I'm trying to be very critical, and it seems to be just awesome. A sound as good as I could possibly hope for from the best-sounding Committee and above average intonation--a tiny bit flat on fouth-line D and low C.

Maybe Mr. Stewart was being a bit of a salesman, but he told me that he just doesn't get the whole Committee mystic thing. He believes that the Imperial is really just about the same horn.

Any other non-Handcraft Imperial lovers out there?

Just found your remarks about Martin Imperials and am wondering how you are finding the trumpet since you have had it several months now?
I have three Martins, two of which are intermediate Imperials and I am very impressed with them both. One has a reverse tuning slide and the other has the standard slide. Both are .453" bores and both sound very warm and sweet. What am I comparing them to? Well I hapen to have two of the trumpets mentioned above. The 60's King Silver Flair and a 50's Conn 38B as well as many other horns. Too many to mention actually. There is something very special about these intermediate Martins. I also have a 1935 Hand Crafted Imperial and I have also played Chris Bottis Martin Committe and his Bach #3 mouthpiece and it felt more open and freerer as it is a much larger bore and is more conical.
However the intermediate imperials are very focoused and open up very nicely with deep mouthpieces. I use a Bach #6 on many of my trumpets that have ML - Large bores but on these smaller bore Martins I use a Bach 5A or a very rare Bach N.Y. 6 1/2A. I also have a N.Y. 9A which feels good on these horns. The Bach #3 works well also because it has a deeper cup than a #6 and it is almost as deep as some A's. If you want a really big sounding dark horn try one of those Vintage Large bore Blessing Artist that Clifford Brown played with a very shallow Vintage N.Y. Bach 17C1 but try a deeper cup than that. I can see why he got such a big sound. I have a couple of Blessing large bore horns one of which is an Artist and they are also very under appreciated like these Martin intermideate imperials.
Anyway I would really like to know how you are going with your Martin.
Thank you Richard. richard.autenzio@bigpond.com
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Brent
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Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Martin Reply with quote

Well, after VOWING not to buy any more trumpet equipment this year, I threw an offer at, and to my great surprise, won a 1938 Martin Imperial Handcraft from Trent Austin. Too cool to pass up, though the misses doesn't seem impressed
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johnpiaz
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Joined: 04 Dec 2022
Posts: 6
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to add my enthusiasm for the late 50’s Imperial, for that Chet Baker - Art Farmer sound and feel. As part of my “comeback” after not playing for 20+ years, I recently traded my flugelhorn for the Martin, thanks to the help of Jim at Dillon Music. I have had a similarly positive experience with the horn over the past few months. Thanks to MarkP for starting this thread, which helped me make my decision to purchase an imperial. It has really worked out. Also, I switched from a Bach 5C, to a Giardinelli 2-piece 6B that I found on eBay. I have written more extensively about the horn and my "comeback" here:
http://johnpiazza.net/trumpet/
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John Piazza
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1956 Martin Imperial
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Giardinelli 6B
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Studied with: Mario Guarneri, Dave Len Scott, John Worley
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