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irith Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 879
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:20 am Post subject: Valve Action |
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The act of pressing and releasing the valves is one of the most simple things involved in playing the trumpet. However, it is often the cause of scrutiny, and I have heard multiple, seemingly mutually exclusive thoughts.
Basically, there seem to be two schools of thought on this:
1. Press and release the valve as quickly as possible, leaving no space between completely closed or open. This is done to maintain an absolutely centered sound, allowing one to execute difficult technique and ensure one is always blowing through the core of the note.
2. Have a smoother, more gradual valve action, to connect notes more smoothly. I have heard this is a concept based on the mechanism of the trombone. It is generally used to further one's legato playing.
Is there room for both of these techniques, depending on context? I had always believed #1 to be the only way forward, but a number of very respected players seem to advocate #2 as well, leaving me a bit confused.
My best results seem to have come from the first school, but the respect associated with certain proponents of the second method leads me to believe I might just be doing it incorrectly. What are your thoughts? |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1778
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I too have thought about this.
I switched to a slower valve action and now its been two years. My fingers have slowed down considerably (just speed...like I can't play clarke as fast as 2 years ago). So that's lame, and my playing didn't get any smoother. Realized its a good "tool" but shouldn't be used exclusively
Keep pressing those valves down and work on the pervasive air (free flowing air). You can be a ball of tension with slow valves...and it isn't going to do anything for your playing.
I switched back to "banging" down the valves. Best decision. My sound is more present and my fingers are flying.
The way you describe the press/release method is perfect.
Last edited by abontrumpet on Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Peter Bond Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 1455 Location: Metropolitan Opera
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Who says you have to use one or the other exclusively? Is there room for both piano and forte in the same composition?
Use the technique that compliments or enables the musical effect you are after.
Snapping the valves down as fast as possible as almost a de facto articulation (Freddie Hubbard's rapid lines come to mind), and will make "Flight of the Bumblebee" clear and exciting, but destroy the legato in the second movt of the Haydn.
Moving the valves a little more slowly will indeed enhance the legato or portando, but will blur lines that require clarity and speed.
Slow valve technique has to be practiced; too slow, and you get the well-known nauseating/comical effect. You must also keep the sound going through the change (some old teachers called it playing inbetween the notes). It's another way we can make our playing more vocal and expressive. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1778
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Well there you go.
Good point. I will have to incorporate that. |
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Addico New Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Posts: 1
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3260 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Abrupt valve movements are an asset to playing. But you DON'T have to "lift the fingers high and strike hard", that introduces extraneous and inefficient movement and reduces timing accuracy..
Slow valve movements WHILE SUSTAINING TONE have an effect if you wish to use that. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3304 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Try various methods and learn how they affect your playing and the sound.
And then, choose what method applies best to whatever you're playing, and deliberately use it.
Awareness, ability, and control. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: |
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slam the valves down always. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:08 am Post subject: |
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For me, slow-moving valves may be useful as a sound effect. Fast is almost always preferred. The goal is to practice them faster than the music requires so it can be taken for granted and never a concern. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Last edited by cheiden on Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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superviking805 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 154 Location: Santa Barbara
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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For the trombone perspective Jay Friedman has an interesting article where he makes a strong claim for slow valves, "Here is a program I guarantee will give you a sound that will be the envy of your peers."
http://www.jayfriedman.net/trompete/ |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1830 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see how you could not use both approaches.
Play Zorba's Dance - maybe the Bottle Dance from Fiddler's - some Mariachi music. An American in Paris. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with the Met Opera guy on this.
Also, there's plenty of room between hammering and light smoothness. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Have to say, Peter nails it.
How you move your fingers - slow, fast, bang, mash(Homer-esque), etc are all, to a degree a skill. This skill set can be something you practice carefully and develop. And talk about a lot.
One day, you will need to stop thinking about it and start playing music. Your brain can take care of the technical details while you sing the music in your head. When I know what I’m after, I can’t tell you what my fingers are doing, they just do it.
Like driving a manual (sorry, stick shift) car / motorcycle. You work on manipulating the clutch, gear selection lever, get it to mesh… think think think. The you are driving/riding smoothy and not thinking about it. Sorry for the analogy, I just got back on the seat after 40 years driving in a ‘cage’…
Or like Rattle conducting. Another analogy.
Cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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