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Questions on a King Liberty



 
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skyline73
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Questions on a King Liberty Reply with quote

Was browsing around one of the local pawn shops today and ran across a King Liberty. I don't know much about them, and don't really have a lot of time to look around because I'm off to orchestra rehearsal soon. The guy was asking $200 bucks for it, but I may be able to get him down to $150. Would this be a good buy?

Is there a specific site on the web that has info on these horns? I was thinking of either fixing and flipping, or if it plays good enough I may just keep it for me or one of the kids.

I did find a few things about them. I'm pretty sure that this wasn't a silver sonic, and I didn't think of writing down the serial number (DOH!!!) but was thinking that I should go back first thing in the morning if it would be a good deal. It wasn't very pretty but the valves still looked pretty good, and I figured that I could strip off the lacquer and polish it up.

Thanks in advance for any help!

J~
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SalArmy
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Joined: 30 Sep 2011
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Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions on a King Liberty Reply with quote

Info on the King instruments made by the H. N. White company starts at this Home page
http://www.hnwhite.com/second%20page.htm

The King trumpets are shown at this page
http://www.hnwhite.com/Trumpet%20Page.htm

The King cornets are shown at this page
http://www.hnwhite.com/Cornet%20Page.htm

The serial number list is at this page
http://www.hnwhite.com/Serial%20Numbers.htm

This search of completed eBay auctions for King Liberty instruments will give you some idea of what they looked like and what they sold for
http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_nkw=king+liberty&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=16212&_okw=king+liberty&_oexkw=&_adv=1&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=Zip+code&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=10&_dmd=1&_ipg=50

In the above eBay search, only the green prices are what the instruments actually sold for, because the red prices mean that there were either no bids at all or that the bids did not reach the seller's reserve price.

The King Liberty instruments had some of the coolest tuning slide braces ever made.

Sal
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good buy? Depends on several factors:

- Condition.
- Vintage (serial number would be nice) but look at the HN White pages and figure out what it looked like. The slide braces changed from curved ellipses to an Art-Deco thing sometime in the 30's.
- What kind of music you play.
- What kind of horn you like.

$150 isn't a steal, but it might be worth it depending on condition.

I've got a 1927-8 Liberty that I got in a pawn shop in Fargo a little over a decade ago for $50. It's the nicest looking horn I own. It's in satin silver with gold wash in the bell.

It does play a little tight for me. Maybe I haven't adjusted properly or found the right mouthpiece/gap/combo but it's not easy for me to get around on. It's a small-bore - .438, if I remember right. I like some smaller bore horns, but they've got to be a bit more free for me. It is, however, very efficient.

It does have a real vibrant tone. It's a bit more small (sort of) and lazer-like than modern horns. However, it doesn't really mesh with the kind of playing I do - which is almost entirely legit/classical/orchestral. I used it once in my college band for about 5 minutes before the director gave me that "what the heck is that sound?" look and a put it down and grabbed the Yammie. It just doesn't really fit in - sound wise - in that genre.

However, that's just my story. I wouldn't let that hold you back, but consider those points.

So, I guess you'll have to figure out if it'll work for you in order to determine it's worth.
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Questions on a King Liberty trumpet Reply with quote

You can find a lot of info on these by just googling a little. There are good descriptions at the H. N. White website. There will be some threads here at TH discussing their playing characteristics. Basically all the Liberties from about 1920 to 1965 are pro horns. The original Liberties came in a small, medium and large bore, but about 1932 there was a Liberty #2 and that had only one bore. Then in 1946 there was another model change to the Liberty Balanced Model, which was made until 1965. After the change in 1932, all the horns were 0.448", which is considered a pretty small bore, but they played pretty big from what I have been told and I believe Jerry Callet liked these horns at one time because they were efficient. I have a Balanced Model which I haven't played in a while (I have a lot of trumpets) and as I remember it plays kind of sweet and lyrical. I have that horn (1950's) and a King Master Model cornet and the valves on both are in pretty good shape for horns that are so old.

You can research price and condition on ebay, as another poster mentions. A price of $150 is not much for a horn that is in good shape and plays well. Try it out and see what you think, bearing in mind you need to check the valves for leakage and mis-alignment and check the slides and valves to see if everything moves or can easily be made to move. Also look to see if the horn is dirty (probably) and be aware it will play considerably more open once it is cleaned and the valves are in line. A stuck slide or two is not a big repair bill if everything else looks OK. If you need guidance on how to check out a horn, PM me.

If there were one of these for sale in my town for $150, I'd certainly be going to look at it.
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Still Trying
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Joined: 20 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Dad owned a King Liberty. He bought it new in 1935 and played it until he died in 1994. It had a sterling silver bell and , at least for me, a very dark , but beautiful sound. Dad played it so much that years before he died, his hand had worn a hole completely through the second valve slide. He taped up the hole with a piece of friction tape, and kept right on playing it.

Through the years I played that horn many times, but it always felt stuffy to me, and I preferred my Olds Recording and later a 1967 vintage Bach Strad to his King. As he grew older, my Dad didn't play as much, so whenever I visited him he would say, "My old horn is getting lonesome in it's case. Why don't you play it a little while for me." So I would break out the old King and play a few numbers for him. According to my Dad, Harry James played the exact same model King at one time.

I agree with the posters who have written about how beautiful those horns are. With a sterling silver bell and brass trim, they really were beautiful horns.
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dwgib
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Joined: 25 Mar 2023
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2023 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a silver 1927 I got on eBay for $158 and love it, plays beautifully, it is in my top 3 of the 20 I own. I found using a 3c and some other vintage mouthpieces I own really make a difference on ease of play and sound. Has that big band sound I love.
1st 2 pics is it cleaned, 3rd is as I bought it. $150 is a great price if slides work,no dents, valves not worn through the plating. I really want to get another with the art deco motif, like the 3rd pic, but they sell at a premium. The ones made in 1950's sell for the least, but same basic specs, except ones in the 30-42's had 3 bore sizes, if I remember, earliest ones only small bore. Anyway, I'm sure you'll love it. 3rd pic is the model I want to get,a 1936, missed one earlier this year went for about $350 w shipping, but usually they sell higher in good shape.




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dwgib
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's it mean when you get an email with "splits on" the topic. I got one, thought it was an update, but found the guy deleted the last 2 posts on the King on ebay he got.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dwgib wrote:
what's it mean when you get an email with "splits on" the topic. I got one, thought it was an update, but found the guy deleted the last 2 posts on the King on ebay he got.

You are not allowed to post links to or advertise sales of your instruments outside of the classifieds section. Mods deleted those posts.
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