1950's Old's "Special" Cornet - Advice Please

HornnOOb

Hello:

I found a 1950's Olds Special model cornet for $90.00. It's in decent shape based on the seller's description and the photos. It comes with the original tweed case, which also looks like it's in good shape for its age. (The seller says that all the slides move and the valve caps unscrew etc.)

Unfortunately, this cornet IS NOt a tri-color -- it's just plain laquered brass. Also, I don't see and slide triggers or even a slide ring to adjust the tuning slid(s) whil playing. Is this unusual?

I've read a lot about the "Special" cornet, and based on what I've read, it seems to be a fairly well respected instrument. However, this one not being tri-color and with not slide rings, it's seems like a very "plain jane" Olds sepcial.

If I buy it for $90.00 plus shipping, and I don't like it, is this something that I could be certain to get my investment back if I end up selling it> And in general, what do you all think of the Olds "Special" cornet.

I just don't want to get stuck with a dog.

Thanks in advance.
_________________
I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C

Happy Canuck · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject:

From the '49 catalog you are descriping the Special of that time http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds49/olds1949Special.htm
_________________
Bill

Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL

oldblow · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject:

I am not certain about the later Specials, but I don't think that the third valve ring works the slide at all. I had one but it was stolen. Properly tweaked, you won't have to use anything but lip to play in tune. If you are not familiar with the large shank mouthpiece issue with Olds cornets prior to about serial number 193,000, you might want to read up. If this horn is in any kind of reasonable condition, you can recover you money if you don't like it.
_________________
Felton (Butch) Bohannon

JonathanM · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject:

I've got the Olds Special cornet WITH the copper bell-end and it's an excellent sounding little horn. I'm glad someone mentioned that all Specials did not have the copper tip - I thought I'd read that but was questioning myself. My Olds Special is early 60's.

Do watch for the valves; that's an old horn. Make sure the compression is fair and the valves don't need re-worked; that horn is not worth the cost of a valve job.

I got my copper tipped Special for $99 on Ebay a couple years back - and it is more than worth that. Without the copper, I don't think I'd go that high. Some very nice Ambassador cornets online for less than that and without the copper tip I'm not sure there's a lot of difference. Buy lower $$'s if you can; that's my .02 worth.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

The '60's Special bell was made of bronze, not copper. It contrasted nicely with the remainder of the horn - but see a period catalog on Olds Central for the actual materials used.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

HornnOOb · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:50 am Post subject:

Well, just bot the 1950's Olds "Special" cornet for $80.00. I figure I can't go wrong.

If anyone can give me any info. on what to expect fro a playing / intonation / sweetness in sound standpoint, I would be interested in your comments.

My goal is to find a cornet with the classic "sweet" "singing" cornet sound.

thanks.
_________________
I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C

veery715 · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:37 am Post subject:

Just play it with an open mind and ear when you get it and see how it goes. It is better not to preload yourself with expectations regarding a new-to-you instrument. No one else can equal your own particular combination of physiology, experience, ear, technique, and musicianship which you will bring to the equation.

All Olds instruments of that era, in good shape, pack the potential to be terrific players. When you get it and play it, YOU tell US what you think!
_________________
veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

HornnOOb · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:56 am Post subject:

royjohn

Maybe someone familiar with this particular model will chime in here. A little background on the cornet: The British vintage or Victorian cornet was known for its sweet tone. The current crop of "shepherd's crook" cornets mimics this to some extent, although the horns have gotten larger in bore and bigger in tone to compete with other modern brass. In America, as the Big Bands got bigger and the brass had to compete with amplification, the trumpet became more popular for its more penetrating tone. Consequently the American cornet lost its shepherd's crook and also took on a tone more akin to the trumpet so that manufacturers could sell more cornets. I think it would be fair to say that the Olds of the 50's was this second type of cornet. I don't have an Olds, but I have a King Master Model of the same vintage and, to my ears, it sounds pretty much like a trumpet. Of course, you will need to see what you think of how it plays. In addition. a cornet will play more traditionally "cornetty" if you use a deep "V" cur mouthpiece. One of Curry's BBC mouthpieces or one of his TF cups may produce the kind of sound you want.

If this doesn't please you, you are right, you can probably recoup your investment and investigate some of the shepherd's crook cornets.
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

HornnOOb · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that additional Info. I didn't realize that the Shepherd's crrok was the key to the "singing - sweet tone." Want I don't want is a dinky trumpet.

So, I'll give it a hoot and a toot when it arrives, but chances are, I'll be selling it for a profit and continuing my search for the "sweet" horn.

Thanks again!
_________________
I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C

oldblow · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject:

When you get the horn, check the serial number against the mouthpiece issue on the Olds Central site. That will head you in the right direction for whatever mouthpiece you will need to get the sound you seek. In the meantime, I can assure you that you are not going to get a "sweet, dark, cornetty" sound from the stock Olds mouthpiece. If you inherit a large shank Bach (possible) with the horn, and it has an "S" on the shank, you will get a pretty fair long cornet tone. If you get a horn that takes the large shank, you might have good fortune using a flugel piece with it. But to really nail down the sound, you will probably need to figure out which deep cup piece that you can order from Mark Curry...a step you will take only if the horn really fits you.

As I said before, my Special from this vintage was stolen, but I play two Bachs, an Airflow, shepherd's crook Super Artist, Evette Shaffer, and Kanstul, and the sound I want depends very much on my choice of mouthpiece and sound I envision according to the music at hand. The relationship of cornet to trumpet is pretty much like Hammond B-3 to Steinway B piano. They both have "B" in their name and both have keyboards. You are in for a ride.
_________________
Felton (Butch) Bohannon

veery715 · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject:

What oldblow writes is gospel. The right mouthpiece can yield a sweet sound.
_________________
veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

HornnOOb · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject:

royjohn

Hi hornOOb,

I wrote:

Abraxas · Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:02 am Post subject:

Old post, but i thought I'd link for others who are likewise looking for info. http://www.rouses.net/trumpet/cornetmpc/cornetmpc.htm