A more efficient Bach 3C

mcgovnor · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: Jerry

Jerry Hey is a 3c type player. He worked with Reeves on a mouthpiece with a 3c rim, an s cup deepened by .012, a 28 throat with a 692 backbore.
I play a similar mouthpiece, just .002 deeper than Jerry's.
From what I remember, Charlie Davis has some Bach 3 c's, threaded rims, with the cup sections cut short, by .005.

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 549

annvill · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Oct 2020 Posts: 155

trumpetsnack · Regular Member Joined: 20 Feb 2022 Posts: 13

I have this same problem with shallow mouthpieces- I too experience bottoming out when my lips swell up after a little bit of playing. I've had a lot of luck with Denis Wick mouthpieces. The rim seems to be a little bit flatter than a Bach or Curry, which I find comfortable. There also seems to be a bigger drop from the rim into the cup, which lets me play even some of their shallower mouthpieces without bottoming out on them. The only thing I've found is the sizing is kind of weird, I think Wick's 4 is like a Bach 3

mafields627 · Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:02 pm Post subject:

You may laught at this, but try a Jupiter 3C if the Bach doesn't work for you. My music store rep gave me one and I absolutely love it. It's comfortable, sounds good, plays evenly in all registers....and it's cheap.
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

brassmoose · Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:28 pm Post subject:

The Lip 81 · Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:28 am Post subject:

I've tried all manner of 3C-like mouthpieces through the years, and my top recommendation for a more efficient version with similar sound and playing characteristics to a Bach 3C is the Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz. For me, I believe it might be more a function of the rim shape moreso than the slight tweaks to the standard 3C cup and throat-entrance shapes. Either way, my experience is that it plays evenly in all registers, and I feel I have good control over tone quality depending upon the situation. The Yamaha Shew Jazz is readily available and inexpensive, and Kelly makes a fantastic lexan version for around the same price if one wanted to go that route.

If you're looking for something oriented more for the classical player, I've had success with the Horntrader HT3-27 "Classical". I get a great classical sound and good control even above the staff without a struggle. Steve Dillard's collaboration with Mark Curry yielded a line of great line of mouthpieces based around the rim shape of Arturo Sandoval's Mt. Vernon Bach 3C scaled down in diameter and paired with different underparts, of which the HT3-27 "Classical" is my favorite next to the HT3-Jazz and HT3CS-27.

Hope this helps!

brassmoose · Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:19 pm Post subject:

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 549

Another update: as the years progress, and in spite of best efforts, the breath support changes, I have changed again. The Bobby Shew Jazz got to where on my Super 20 the tuning note 3rd space C started to go sharp as it became more difficult to get air through its tight backbore. It just became too tight for me and I was putting more effort than reasonable to get the air through it. So I backed off, did some research, and found a custom Bach 3C with a #76 backbore. Now, if you look at any comparator, the 3C cup is no deeper than many other Bach D cup mouthpieces, including a 7D. And of course, the stock backbore for Bach D cups is the #76, just slightly tighter than the stock #10 for Bach C cups. I purchased a 7D, loved the way it helped me manage my breath support, but I wanted the 3C rim. So I found a Bach 3C with a custom #76 backbore. To me, this is the most efficient 3C trumpet mouthpiece I have yet tried.

I must say that for other ergonomic reasons, as well as wanting to go a new direction, I am getting into cornets: a globe stamp Sov 921, a Cyborg .462 (previously marketed as a King 603, now a Bach CR301H), and a JP sop that my tech made to play better than some of the "big boys." Of course, a 3C is too bright for cornet. I will report when I get my last mouthpiece from Mark Curry with a 3BC cup, his "wobbly 27" throat, and his version of a slightly tighter backbore for the Cyborg cornet so I can blend better in a concert band situation with all the trumpets. Going the other way, I also have a Curry 3BBC for the mellow tone on my 921 when I am privileged when I go to the UK every few years to sit in with my friend's community brass band. Oh, and to point out the opposite extreme, the Wick 4B is THE cornet mouthpiece, but with its larger throat and open backbore, it takes tons of air to make its signature tone work, and is not efficient at all. But if you can play it, it is the signature British Brass Band tone.

As far as efficiency, something different: I have never played a mouthpiece more efficient of any make or model than Mark's 3TC cornet mouthpiece. If the player has good breath support and reasonable technique and endurance, and is compatible with a #3 rim, it is the closest to an effortless mouthpiece I have ever played since 1973 (Oh, God! Fifty years since I started school band!!!). His 3 series mouthpieces, both trumpet and cornet, have his version of a Bach Mt Vernon 3C rim. I can see that some trumpet players might think the trumpet version is too dark, but it is still a very efficient mouthpiece. Of course, all players are different, and YMMV.

All this talk about efficiency has its origins, as I have experienced in my physiological changes over the decades, in breath support. Anybody who is questioning the efficiency of a mouthpiece needs to consult a good teacher to make sure the breath support is still there, and that no bad habits, including shallow breathing, pressure, etc., have creeped into the player's technique over the years. That is what I have done before any change of mouthpiece to make sure my fundamentals were sound, even if I don't have all the breath support, range, endurance, or technique I had three to four decades ago. Only after an evaluation of the player's current breath support, can the quest for a different mouthpiece reasonably begin.
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SterlingBell · Regular Member Joined: 28 Dec 2018 Posts: 65

I played a Bach 3C for about 30 years. At the ITG in Amherst, Massachusetts I tried a Monette B6. It took me a few times going back to the booth to actually pay the $240.00 back then for a mouthpiece. It was an easy switch and have been playing it for 20 years so far. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

jwilliamson77 · Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 4:46 am Post subject:

And this many years later no one has actually answered the details of the original question - about Stork and Marcinkiewicz. I've played both brands. Stork is not an efficient 3c. It's a beautiful sound but it was more work for me. I'm playing Marcinkiewicz exclusively these days. I have different pieces for different needs. 308 for a more classical sound. E3/3c for jazz and big band section work. E13 Chuck Findley for lead. The efficient 3c as requested is maybe the E3, but I really rate the 300 series and my 308. Perhaps a 310 or shallower could be the ticket here. I really like the symphonic backbone on the 300 series.
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