Different Approach for Air Compression and Support

stanton

I don't think I can make this short, but I'll try to be succinct. You'll probably have to read the whole thing to get the gist of what I'm saying here. Sorry.

Rewind to the beginning…. my approach to playing was BTSOOI.. Overblowing, plain and simple. I got decent results, but never great results. Trumpet playing was never easy for me. I was alway wrestling with the mechanics and spent far too little time on the music.

We always refer to "air support", "compression", etc. And, while I thought I *sort of* got it, I obviously didn't really catch on. In one sense I thought I was using air correctly, but the fact is I wasn't, as my playing will attest.

There were some previous threads on this forum with the theme of "blow-thru players vs compression players. I have come to the conclusion that the blow-thru players still create compression, but probably just approach it differently, as compression players have to blow to some degree.

… Last week I stumbled onto a video of Roger Ingram. I was more familiar with his reputation than a player. So I decided to watch a basic presentation vid that he gave at NAMM.

In this demonstration, he showed how he inhaled, something I'd never seen before. His system is:
1) Inhale 5% and let stomach go out
2) Inhale another 40% WHILE PULLING STOMACH IN
3) Inhale the rest raising shouders
3a) Drop shoulders and play

I am providing the link to his video, but have modified my approach to it to be more "normal". Same concept, but less radical. (especially no shoulders).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fesqKELXqbU&feature=related

When I first saw it, it looked really funky to me, especially the shoulder raising thing. But still, I was intrigued. I couldn't imagine inhaling WHILE pulling the stomach in...

But I tried it, and something interesting occurred. What I found was when I did it this way (push stomach out initially while inhaling, continuing to inhale while pulling in) that my lungs were filled with pre-compressed air! All I had to do was let it out!!! I thought this thing would introduce tension, but I seem to experience quite the opposite. Basically my body leans against the air.

A couple bi-products…
First, it gets rid of the need to "blow" excessively. The expiration and continued contraction is simply to maintain the compression as air escape through the lips. My playable range seems to have expanded significantly. I had a lesson last night and my teacher says that it’s the best he has heard me sound.

Now for the rest of the story…
I could not understand how this could possibly work. But what I noticed is that NOW, with this approach, when I need to push more air I AM NOW PUSHING FROM MY BACK!!! It feels much, much stronger.

In essence what I think it happening is that the air gets compressed as I pull my stomach in while inhaling. Seems the the diaphragm is sucking the air in while the stomach is packing it in. The pulled in stomach holds the initial compression while my back muscles stay neutral. As the air escapes I can push with my back to maintain more constant compression. A simple way to describe the feeling is "leverage".

I would have to guess that this is similar to the "wedge", but the it doesn't feel like a wedge. It just feels more like my back moving, pulling toward my stomach which now is relatively solid and stationary. Hope I described it accurately.

This thing is new and still needs some mental focus as I play, but when I have time to set up it seems to be a really powerful thing.

Thoughts anyone???

Stanton
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crzytptman · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject:

I can't feel my stomach, except when it's full of food. I can't move it. If I try to, I can't tell whether it's moving or not.

If one ALLOWS himself to take a full, yogic breath, one will notice that the lower ab region initially distends slightly as the flexing diaphragm pushes the organs down. As one continues, the rib cage expands and the ab region pulls back in. One may or may not raise shoulders at the height of the breath. When holding, the chest will be up and out with the abs comfortably snug. For upper register playing, one can set the abs in at this point to further compress the air in the lungs.

If one is packing air into their stomach, I think it would be quite uncomfortable. I can't imagine how this would help trumpet playing.
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stanton · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject:

Shaft · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 982

Yup------Pops told me it was like the tube of toothpaste. It's all ready to go.

On a high C or on slurs I will kick my abs inward toward my back...

Then the organs are compressed and push up toward the lungs giving you compression from underneath.

Maynard Ferguson used to do this and in some of his videos you can see it.

When ever I miss a high note or it doesn't pierce with focus and authority I know I was lazy with my abs.

Happy playing
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stanton · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:25 pm Post subject:

crzytptman · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:16 am Post subject:

I would like you to look at this and tell me exactly how it relates to what you are describing:

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/picture-of-the-stomach

Notice in the paragraph that there is no mention of the stomach's role in respiration. Please identify which stomach muscles you are moving in your "technique".

From what you are writing, I pretty much think you have no idea what you are talking about. But, I want to be fair and allow you to show me.
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- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)

mrsemman · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:52 am Post subject:

What most men do not realize is that they are stomach breathers, which means that the stomach extends when they inhale a breath. The stomach extension lowers the diaphram and allows the lungs to expand. What Ingram is doing is simply creating more expansion and filling the lungs to capacity for blowing.

Makes sense.
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tptptp · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:41 am Post subject:

There are no muscles in the body which make the abdomen "expand" except the diaphragm. When the diaphragm contracts, at flattens, thus lowering pressure in the thorax for the sole purpose of creating a vacuum in the lungs to cause outside air to enter. As a byproduct, flattening of the diaphragm also pushes down from above on abdominal contents and causes passive "expansion" of the abdominal wall. You can resist that expansion by contracting your abdominal wall muscles. This simply compresses your abdominal contents until you release. We have almost no control on the relative contribution of diaphragm and chest wall musculature to the process of inspiration...And again, abdominal wall muscles contribute nothing to inspiration. Really great players and teachers sometimes think they understand what's happening physiologically, but they can be wrong.
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stanton · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:14 am Post subject:

hien peter · Veteran Member Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 307

it is a good idea to do the breathing with the diaphragm.
This is the most efficient way to do it
and it is simple - no big thing.

Most people take too much air - you don´t need very much air.
And they compress too high - you don´t need high compression.
And they think about air flow - but the air flows by itself.

As long as the embouchure is good, anything else works naturally by itself.
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Jerry Freedman · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:06 am Post subject:

Isn't this the much discussed wedge breath

stanton · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:35 am Post subject:

James B. Quick · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject:

Stanton:

stanton · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:48 am Post subject:

JBQ- Sorry you suffer from TTS (Terminal Terminolgy Syndrome)

.
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Schilke B1, Bach 37, 1969 Getzen Severinsen Eterna
Bach C 229 w Charlie Melk custom work
Getzen Eterna Cornet, Crappy old Yamaha 3valve Eb
Stanton Kramer "Signature" Mouthpiece

kalijah · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:11 am Post subject:

stanton wrote:

JRoyal · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 770

The flaw in all of this is the lack of understanding that fact our lungs expand. They are not a static (small) container, there is no need to create "compression", take a full breath and let your body do what it was designed to do.

kalijah · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:45 am Post subject:

JRoyal · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 770

kalijah · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject:

Yes, seems to not understand the elasticity of the lungs and how it contributes to air pressure.

percivalthehappyboy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 731