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Hyrule571
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Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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Location: Ohio, USA
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 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: Examples of different sounding Bb trumpets? |
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I see people talking about warm sounding and some that aren't? There are some more words that describe the different pitches of different horns that I can't think of. Can someone explain this to me and give me some good exmaples of professional horns that are warm & rich, or sharper & higher, if those are even the right words?
What would you describe a Getzen Eterna 900's sound, or a Getzen Artist's sound?
What would you describe a Yamaha Xeno's sound?
What would you describe a Blessing 1580's or 1460's sound, or a Super Artist's sound?
What would you describe a Bach Strad's sound, or a Bach Mt. V's sound?
D= Okay I'll let you guys answer now. Please and thank you! I was wondering all this because I was wondering escpecially what my trumpet(Blessing 1460) would be categorized as. Thanks! |
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DavesTrumpet
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Hyrule571
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Location: Ohio, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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=o...
When I play my trumpet it seems soft and it doesn't seem to have that pizzaz unless if I make my lips a certain way and force myself to play like that... =/ |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Examples of different sounding Bb trumpets? |
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| Hyrule571 wrote: | I see people talking about warm sounding and some that aren't? There are some more words that describe the different pitches of different horns that I can't think of. Can someone explain this to me and give me some good exmaples of professional horns that are warm & rich, or sharper & higher, if those are even the right words?
What would you describe a Getzen Eterna 900's sound, or a Getzen Artist's sound?
What would you describe a Yamaha Xeno's sound?
What would you describe a Blessing 1580's or 1460's sound, or a Super Artist's sound?
What would you describe a Bach Strad's sound, or a Bach Mt. V's sound?
D= Okay I'll let you guys answer now. Please and thank you! I was wondering all this because I was wondering escpecially what my trumpet(Blessing 1460) would be categorized as. Thanks! |
Hyrule,
I have come to think differently than I started, concerning trumpet sounds. It is true that the player brings the fundamental sound distinctions to the equation, but there are design elements that have an effect.
Bell taper is probably the biggest one, besides the choice of mouthpiece. the taper acts like a graphic equalizer to give balance to the timbre of the horn. The larger the taper, the more low frequencies will be present. The opposite is also true. The tighter the taper, fewer lows and more highs will be present. Another aspect of taper is the "sweet spot" that the horn really comes into its own. Narrow tapers have a smaller range of notes that resonate fully. Large tapers have a wider range of really resonant notes, but may have less pointed projection.
Bell weight determines the density of the sound; how much "weight" there is to it. Heavy bells produce a heavy sound, light bells produce a lighter sound. this is not a change in timbre, but in the impact or energy carried by the sound.
Weight also determines how much sound energy the bell can handle before it turns brilliant or becomes unstable. Heavy bells can handle higher levels of energy than lightweight bells. However, lightweight bells respond at lower energy levels than do heavy bells.
Some people point to bell material as a significant element in how a horn sounds, but this depends on the type of construction and what materials are being compared. To me, the material does more to alter the high frequencies than anything. At least with hand wrought bells, the more copper content in the brass, the fewer high frequencies are produced.
These are a few elements to consider. I think understanding these and other fundamentals of design is more helpful than asking about how any single model sounds. What a player hears from behind the horn often differs greatly from what the audience hears and may be hugely affected by mouthpiece choice. The actual sound reaching the listener is not affected as greatly by these things.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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trmptz
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| DavesTrumpet wrote: | | Depends on the player. And... even the player can get a wide variety of different sounds using the same horn, AND same mouthpiece and with a change of mouthpiece too. Timofei Dokshizer once told me we are all born with our own sounds. I tend to agree. |
Agreed! Most of a players sound comes from within. The horn & mouthpiece fine tunes it!  |
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DavesTrumpet
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Hyrule571 wrote: | =o...
When I play my trumpet it seems soft and it doesn't seem to have that pizzaz unless if I make my lips a certain way and force myself to play like that... =/ |
How long have you been playing? It takes a certain amount of effort to play the trumpet; it's not a clarinet, afterall!
Trust your ears, LISTEN, practice, and find a good teacher. Not necessarily in that order, but you get my drift. If you want to remain in a state of complete perplexion, then ask subjective questions that will garner you a million different answers, or read Sartre. 
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Dave M
www.electrotheremin.com/bach.html
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Michael Drapp
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| DavesTrumpet wrote: | | Depends on the player. And... even the player can get a wide variety of different sounds using the same horn, AND same mouthpiece and with a change of mouthpiece too. Timofei Dokshizer once told me we are all born with our own sounds. I tend to agree. |
No question about it, all of us have unique sounds that are just modified and amplified by our horns...it is our sound, not the horn's that makes music 
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Michael R. Drapp,
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DavesTrumpet
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Drapp wrote: | | DavesTrumpet wrote: | | Depends on the player. And... even the player can get a wide variety of different sounds using the same horn, AND same mouthpiece and with a change of mouthpiece too. Timofei Dokshizer once told me we are all born with our own sounds. I tend to agree. |
No question about it, all of us have unique sounds that are just modified and amplified by our horns...it is our sound, not the horn's that makes music |
I like your use of the word "modified" because that's exactly what the various brands/designs, etc. of horns do to our sound!
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Dave M
www.electrotheremin.com/bach.html
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richardwy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| DavesTrumpet wrote: | | If you want to remain in a state of complete perplexity, then ask subjective questions that will garner you a million different answers, or read Sartre. |
I almost want to nick that and put it in my signature.
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: |
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[quote="richardwy"] | DavesTrumpet wrote: | | If you want to remain in a state of complete perplexity, then ask subjective questions that will garner you a million different answers, or read Sartre. |
Do you Camus? |
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DavesTrumpet
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oljackboy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| "Pardon me while I whip this out..." |
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DavesTrumpet
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AJCarter
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I play Bachs primarily. I have a 37 and 72. I believe they have different qualities to their sounds.. and when I play either of them you can tell it's me, it just sounds to my ear that they seem to magnify certain aspects of my playing.
Xenos play a bit different to me, they sound less brilliant to me, but still have a good sound. overall, still sounds like me.
The schilke's I have tried all were very nice horns. I would love a B1, B2 or B3 to have in my collection one day, but they all tend to be a bit on the brighter side for me.
Overall, I think everyone tends to sound like themselves and then we blend the best we can when we work together.
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(List horns here) |
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EdMann
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't get away from myself. Someone help me... |
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chuck in ny
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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here's a good one for you. what kind of girls are best? you can go out with black ones, white ones, europeans, brazilians, and so forth, and we'll further subdivide them into zodiac signs and personality type.
it's a typical question where there is no good answer. if you meet a few girls, you will relate to some better than others. as with trumpets it comes down to you.
even if you knew you wanted a schilke or yamaha horn you're going to have agonizing fits figuring out which one in the line to choose.
what did the zen master say, something like all gets dropped in the moment of encounter. when you play horns you know in a short time that this or that is completely unsuitable for your playing.
you have to play whatever you can to find out for yourself, and you have to have your mouthpiece choices sorted out as well.
good part of this is that we are in a golden age of equipment. luck with your quest lad.. chuck |
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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DavesTrumpet
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| DavesTrumpet wrote: | LOL!  Hadn't seen that movie in years! I need to Netflix it! Funny! |
I actually might put this fragment in my sig.
 MvW. |
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Capt.Kirk
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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You have to get away from the Besson style trumpet's so that rules out 90% of the trumpets mass produced or even semi-custom made.
It is totally ignorant to think that the player is the source of the sound. Sure the player is in charge of playing the horn but nothing the player can do will change the basic characteristically of a bell profile. You can not make an Olds Opera sound like a Bach 180/37 no matter how fantastic of a player you are. You like wise can not make a Flumpet sound like a Piccolo Trumpet just is not something the player can over come with his talent,skill and practice. Anyone that thinks other wise should invest in idea's like but not limited " The earth is flat!" and " The sun revolves around the earth!" lol........Great musicians would not own multiple trumpets, flugel horns and the like if all of their sound was internal and innate to them! Like wise we would not have all these "Bach" snob's that think anything other then a Bach is not a proper horn for legit music or a true professional.......LOL Everyone would be playing $89 ebay trumpets if it did not matter.
I am still waiting for one of you "Gear Does Not Matter" guys to trade me a nice NY Bach, Schilke, Calicchio or any other nice high end pro horn for one of my nice but not pro horns.LOL I am still waiting so far no taker's which means all the "Gear Does Not Matter" men and women are all talk.
Nothing matter's more then the bell profile and valve assembly for shaping how a horn is going to play and sound. That is a fact not a matter of opinion. So the further you get away from Besson/Bach style bell profiles the more different the horn will sound.
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Perplexion? Ugh. I need to pay more attention to what I'm writing!