The Bach Long Cornet (181)

maynard-46 · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:54 pm Post subject: The Bach long model cornet

I just had on trial, this week, the ML181 cornet...brand new in lacquer. It was probably the WORST horn of ANY kind I have ever played. Tried it for 2 days for maybe a total of 1 hour. Once you got to "F/G" on top of the staff it totally shut down!! I've probably owned 250-300 trumpets in my 50 year career and this one rates dead last!! I already sent it back! Maybe it was just a dog?!

Butch
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cjl · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I have a 37 ML cornet that does that somewhat. The upper register gets pretty tight. I'm using a deeper mouthpiece, a Curry 3DC ... and I'm not so good in the upper register anyways. But I love the feel and the sound!

I imagine a valve alignment and gap adjustment would help, just the same as on a trumpet, right?

What are the usual things things to look at if a trumpet/cornet is stuffy in the upper register?

-- Joe

Dale Proctor · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject:

In general, cornets are a little harder to play in the upper register than most trumpets are. When you throw a "proper" cornet mouthpiece into the mix, they take significantly more effort to play up high. If a cornet has a gap (not all do), having it optimized can help.
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rockford · Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: The Bach long model cornet

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

I have always wanted to try one. I have tried Conn long cornets and liked them.

I always considered the Martin Com. Trumpet a Long Cornet that took a trumpet MP.

I am no fan of Bach but that is mostly due to all the un-deserved hype associated with them and the fact that the current design is not Bach's design at all. That said I have to think something is not right with the sample you had. Like a gap issue or solder blob inside etc???? We all know Bach is asleep at the wheel when it comes to quality control.
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maynard-46 · Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 am Post subject: the bach long model cornet (1810

In my earlier post I forgot to mention...my Schilke cornet mouthpieces do not work on the Bach. They all bottom out in the receiver. I guess if somebody wanted to use a Schilke piece they'd have to have the shank cut down. I also own a Schilke XA1 and a LB Getzen Eterna. BOTH of these horns play well up to double "G"....and...yes...as I do a lot of Dixieland and small group jazz I use a trumpet type cup on my cornets!! Maybe Bach and I just don't get along!! I've never been a fan of any of their horns so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the results I had with the 181. For someone else it may very well be a great horn FOR THEM...just NOT ME! I've worked with a lot of players that use Bachs and they sounded great...so I'm certainly NOT bashing Bach instruments in any way. Just "different strokes for" I guess.

Butch
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

rockford

Louise Finch

rockford

Brassnose · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:21 am Post subject:

Old thread, I know. Reason I bring it back up: just came across a Bach long cornet with a 43G bell. Is this a trumpet bell? Or is this a trumpet bell specifically made for the long cornet?

Main question is, could one also get a Bach long cornet with, say, a 65GH bell?

So far I always thought the cornets came with long and short bells that were specifically made for the cornets and had “nothing” to do with the trumpet bells.
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TrumpetMD · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:33 am Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject:

I’ve haven’t heard such a critical review of the Bach 181 37 cornet. I’d welcome the opportunity to inspect your sample to see what could be wrong. Our blueprinting service also applies to cornets, and I can’t help think something isn’t right.

As for Schilke vs Bach cornet mouthpiece shanks, there’s a huge difference. Schilke’s smaller shank will engage much more than a Bach.

And yes, Bach cornet bell models correspond to their trumpet bell, just bent shorter.

FEIW Gerard Schwarz sounded amazing playing his Bach 181 on his 1984 Cornet Favorites album.
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rcox6918 · Regular Member Joined: 16 Apr 2020 Posts: 78

Crazy Finn · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:40 pm Post subject:

CRoberts8 · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:46 am Post subject:

Brassnose · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:06 am Post subject:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/bach-cornet-43g/1339481341-74-2812?utm_source=copyToPasteboard&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_medium=social&utm_content=app_ios
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

blbaumgarn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705

My experience playing Bach cornets is mostly over 45 years ago. I played two long cornets that I enjoyed a bunch just trading in select bands in high school. Nice tone and open lower and upper register. I would think if you found a used one it could be a real winner. In fact, I liked one of those long cornets better than any Bach trumpet I ever played and that was a quite a few years ago. I think that 181 could be a find you enjoy playing.
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Brassnose · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:31 am Post subject:

I have indeed played a Bach cornet in the late 1980s when a bandmate brought his to whatever meeting that was. I really liked it and also thought (I seem to remember) that it played more easily than my trumpet (ok, at the time this was a Blessing student horn, but nonetheless).

I have mostly played big band and soul/rock/pop for the last 30 years plus I was not even 20 when I played the said cornet - trumpets were so much cooler than cornets

so of course my first “real” trumpet was a Bach trumpet, the one in my signature.

Now, today, as my hearing is not as good as it was, as I get more into playing smaller group and less powerful stuff and hope to start some type of my own band after the lockdown is over, a cornet is actually getting more interesting. Currently there are no plans to actually buy one but who knows.

As I posted in my question a few posts ago, I had just realized that there may be the possibility that there are different bells on Bach long cornets although everything is called a 181. Still think that for quieter stuff a 65GH bell might be mighty interesting. We’ll see ...
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

GordonH · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:37 am Post subject:

The 25 long model cornet (large bore) is a great instrument.
Very rare here in the UK.
The 37 is pretty much "meh". It doesn't do anything for me unfortunately.
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