Bach 1.25C; time to switch? Or something else?

[stn17]

Hello all,

Since before my junior year of college, I've been playing on a Bach 1.25C; private teacher and I had sought a warmer tone since I started more functionally "using" air the "correct" way. Prior to that, had used a modified (read: 26 backbore and an opened-up throat) after moving down the traditional way from a 7C to a 5C.

Nowadays, I'm having all kinds of trouble getting a consistent sound and good feel in my playing. Certainly, I'm not in college or taking lessons anymore, and my first stint in grad school, even went a whole semester and only played three times before getting back in shape enough over the summer to do a recital the following fall.

I wonder if it's time to change from my 1.25, either if I'm just too far-removed from how in-shape I was in college, or if something larger/deeper/with a different rim will help my consistency, because for all my consistent practice, there's not a great deal of results...fuzzy sounds, what feels like resistance, and previously unheard-of struggle to move beyond the top of the staff abound. And yes, I've cleaned out the horn many times and found nothing.

Thanks to all for your insights!

Sam
_________________
Samuel T. Nemeth
Case Western Reserve University
Historical Musicology
Cleveland Orchestra Archives 2019-2020
Phi Beta Kappa Society

[Ed Kennedy]

I could recommend mouthpieces but my first thought is to hook up for skype lessons with somebody with a rep as a chops doctor. Jeanne Pocius comes to mind. http://www.ojtrumpet.net/jeanne/

Maybe one of the symphony players in your area could accommodate you. They unfortunately, have lots of free time lately.

FWIW I've switched to Patrick mouthpieces. The comfort is outstanding as well as tone and response. https://patrickmouthpieces.com/store/#!/Classic/c/2605557/offset=0&sort=normal

In fact I think Steve Patrick does skype lessons as well.
Roy Poper at Oberlin would also be a good bet. He is a James Stamp protege.

[CJceltics33]

Id say try one of your smaller pieces for a bit. If it doesn't work better, switch back!

[Jonak5634]

I’m having a similar issue! I was on a 1.5c 25 throat in college and now that i’m Pretty much only working on stuff for auditions and not in ensembles all the time, i find it harder to play. I switched to a Bach 2c a few days ago, and its a little better but i just learned that the cup on those is deeper than a 1.5c, so thats kind of annoying.

A couple more thoughts: does your piece wobble in your receiver? That can make it a bit harder to play. Same if you have a dent in the end of your Backbore. Also, have you clocked your piece? Each mouthpiece has a sweet spot in each receiver (the “1 1/4c” on your piece might be facing straight up(12 o’clock ) or straight down (6 o’clock) and so on. If you haven’t messed with that I’d highly recommend. If its in the wrong spot, it will definitely be harder to play.
Hope this helps!

[AJCarter]

[Fredrik]

I played a Bach 1.25C for years when I just started college. Later in life I realised that I really got along with the rim but that it was way to big for me when it comes to the kind of playing that I do.

Everyone is different I guess, but to me the rim shape is just as important as the size of the mouthpiece. I found something on the smaller side with a round rim (to me the rim of the Bach 1.25 felt rather round) and I've been happy with that for a long time now. My suggestion is not only to look at the specs and size and numbers - also look at what kind of rim you like.

Kind regards

Fred

[cheiden]

Bach 1.25C is larger than most succeed on. And from what you said you seem to hold to the notion that Bach pieces are sequential in size when in fact they're really not.

My best recommendation on the limited information would be to retreat to a more modest size from your past, the Bach 7C if you didn't hate it. Alternately I might recommend a Yamaha 11C4 since it's similar in ID but with a rim many find more comfortable.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[JWG]

There exists a noticeable difference between a Bach 1.25C and 1.5C. I have an old 1.25C which I pull out of storage every once in a while when cleaning my music cabinet, and the cup feels cavernous even compared to both the variety of Flip Oakes 1.5 rimmed mouthpieces I have and the Bach 1.5C 24/24, Bach 1.5B, and Bach 1X I play on occasionally, all of which have about the same diameter rim.

Thus, I would try a 1.5C and a 3C, as both have very nice medium alpha angles and a more comfortable rim that make them popular with a wide array of players. The 1.25C's combination of the slightly wider rim, larger cup, and the more extreme alpha angle tends to require more effort, in my opinion.

Alternatively, if you want to get yourself back into better shape, practice on a mouthpiece with a larger throat and deeper cup and perform on a smaller version with the same rim. In my case, I often practice on a Flip Oakes 1.5 XT (extreme trumpet: Mt. Vernon 1.5 rim, deep V cornet cup, large “O” backbore, #11 bore) and usually perform on a Flip Oakes 1.5 O (Mt. Vernon 1.5 rim, medium cup, large "O" backbore, & #26 bore). Practicing on a #11 bore and performing on #26 bore analogizes to training for a marathon running uphill for 26 miles then running the marathon on the flats. All that extra effort in practice allows you to put a lot more energy into your performances.

Then again, I may have watched too many Rocky movies as a kid.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[lclebsch215]

Hi Sam! I'll send you a message!

[stn17]

Thanks to all of you; tough to respond individually because you've all given me different things to try and to "feel out." I'm working with my various contacts, too, about methods to try, anti-tension mindfulness, and others.

I'll be taking careful consideration towards starting with something larger, possibly retreating to a small size, and so on!

Grateful for your help, and stay healthy in these crazy times!!


Sam
_________________
Samuel T. Nemeth
Case Western Reserve University
Historical Musicology
Cleveland Orchestra Archives 2019-2020
Phi Beta Kappa Society

[DaveH]

Here is my experience.

I played a Bach 1 1/4C for many years.

I was taking lessons for part of that time. In fact, it was my teacher who directed me to use that mouthpiece. He was a symphony principal and played a Bach 1C. I made good progress without any apparent problems.

Gradually over a period of subsequent years, I developed various difficulties, some similar to those described in the original post. Producing a good tone and good articulation were some of my prominent problems. The tone was fuzzy and unfocused.

I was able to locate some help in the form of lessons again, and found that some embouchure adjustments would be helpful. I discovered that gradually over a long period of time, I had actually developed some problematic embouchure technique and formation. The kinds of problems I had developed seemed to have actually been facilitated by the use of the very large diameter mouthpiece.

With an adjustment in embouchure formation, I was able to move to smaller mouthpieces. First a 3C and then a 7C.

At one time, I thought something like a 3C was too small and a 7C was completely impossible. Now, a 3C seems plenty large, and a 7C is probably even better for consistent tone and accurate and reliable articulation. I attribute this difference to a change toward a more efficient and focused embouchure technique. I think that today a 1 1/4C would be too large for me to play efficiently and with good tone and control.

I want to point out again that all this took place over a period of many years with some "comeback" times of playing. And, the help of an embouchure "coach" was probably necessary to get past the issues I had experienced.

Just as an additional point, I have found that rim design has been very significant for me. I think I have a better understanding of the effect of the rim more so now than previously.

Such was my experience. I don't blame the mouthpiece. More likely, I had developed some inefficient and ineffective playing habits very gradually. So my opinion is that playing a mouthpiece like a Bach 1 1/4C is best done under the supervision of a good trumpet teacher who can consistently monitor progress. And, such a mouthpiece may work best for someone who is a professional player and is playing regularly every day,

[Jerry]

My $.02:

A Bach 1.25 C is a huge mouthpiece. If you're not practicing several hours a day, it's highly unlikely you'll be successful on it.

Play something smaller.