question about Trumpet in F parts

[freethinkin]

I'm not a trumpet player but have been looking through orchestral trumpet parts as a composer. I have noticed several Trumpet in F parts, in Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 4 and Debussy's La Mer, for example. The parts are written quite low in general. The Debussy only goes as high as a D in the staff and the Tchaikovsky only up to an Eb in the staff. It seems like they are meant to be transposed up so that the sounding pitch is a 4th higher than written. Is this correct?

Modern trumpet players would play these parts on typical Bb or C trumpets, right? Also, at the time that these pieces were written what kind of trumpet would a trumpet player have used? I read something about old low orchestral trumpets in F, but it seems like those would play low notes and therefore transpose down a fifth like a horn.

Anyway, I'm quite confused about these trumpet in F parts and have found little information about them in orchestration books or on the internet. Thanks for the help!

[RandyTX]

[Nonsense Eliminator]

freethinkin --

You are correct, these parts sound a fourth higher than written, and modern players would use their regular instruments on these.

Historically, these would have been played on a low F trumpet, i.e. pitched a fifth lower than a modern C trumpet. (Towards the end of the period where F trumpets were used, it's likely that at least some performers were using B flat or C trumpets.) The transposition is, in a sense, completely consistent with the F horn, as the fundamental pitch of the low F trumpet is one octave higher than the horn. It's also consistent with the way natural instruments were notated. From a historical perspective, it makes perfect sense, but retrospectively it seems strange since we're used to B flat trumpets sounding lower than written, even though they're smaller than the F trumpets, that sound higher than written.

To further muddy the waters, as RandyTX has observed, there are a few parts which are written for trumpet in "F alta" which sound lower than written. Confusingly, those parts are written for essentially the same instrument that Tchaikovsky wrote for, but are transposed differently.
_________________
Richard Sandals
NBO

[freethinkin]