Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: Adams a9 .453 and .468 trumpets side-by-side video
Here's a brief low-fi clip of the new Adams A9 Trumpet which is modeled after a Martin Committee. The two horns are the same thickness in bell (.50) and the only major difference is the bore size. The #2 bore is a medium (.453) and the #3 a large (.468). The #3 bore is a prototype and the #2 is reserved for someone. I do have these on order coming in shortly from the factory.
Both sound nice.... I jumped between clips randomly and they sound virtually identical in the fast passages... The player can influence both these horns to sound darker or brighter but when all is said and done they sound much the same and only in side by side would you know any difference. A blind test without knowing which was which would make it really difficult to separate them I reckon.
Trent does one have a bigger sound over the other in a live situation?
Walter _________________ "Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice."
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:40 pm Post subject:
I think that Trent sounds better on the large bore, but when I played both models at the NAMM show, I strongly preferred the medium bore horn.
It felt much more comfortable and responsive, and I liked the sound coming back to me much better.
It's interesting to note that if I were basing my decision upon which model to buy on Trent's demonstration, I would end up getting the wrong horn....for ME.
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject:
To me, the LB has more color in it's sound and it seems to be more responsive as well. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:16 am Post subject:
i would have to play both... and strongly suspect there would be a preference for the medium bore. i don't get much from a lot of these videos.
..chuck
I am interested by the more " colourful" sound and "lit" up comments... Are we talking better player matching here ...I am curious how two horns that are virtually the same except for "bore size" would sound so different?
Most trumpets I have played in the past with smaller bores seem to light up easier..in this case is it possible that Trent is blowing harder on the bigger bore....
Trent what is happening here....? I wonder if the results would be so one sided if this were a blind test... and perhaps the music content was an identical piece of music..... no disrespect ...just curious.
I found when I owned both a medium and large bore Committee that the smaller bore had more colour and would light up easier but the larger bore had a bigger sound.
Walter _________________ "Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice."
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:13 am Post subject:
Just my opinion, obviously, but I thought the #2 sounded tinny and toy-like. I really didn't like it. The #3 sounded just like I think a trumpet should sound. In fact, it sounded so good, if I had the money, I would run to grab the checkbook and plunk the cash down right now. So there you go. Wow. What a fabulous sound with #3. _________________ Richard
Just my opinion, obviously, but I thought the #2 sounded tinny and toy-like. I really didn't like it. The #3 sounded just like I think a trumpet should sound. In fact, it sounded so good, if I had the money, I would run to grab the checkbook and plunk the cash down right now. So there you go. Wow. What a fabulous sound with #3.
Any ideas why #2 sound would sound "toy like"....Richard? I wouldn't have thought anything out of the Adams stable would sound like that..... I am still hoping Trent will come back on this inconsistency that people seem to be hearing. I must admit I am surprised....
Walter _________________ "Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice."
Thanks everyone for the comments. I actually prefer the medium bore over the larger one actually But I think the mouthpiece match with that one isn't right for me. I usually play a much bigger mouthpiece with the medium bore and that seems to offset the bore quite nicely. I will record another clip tomorrow with a large mouthpiece on the medium with a piece like my 1.25CS. I think for me a piece like my 3c works quite well with the larger bore.
I voted that they sound the same... mostly. To me, the #3 is a little more ready to sing out and get brilliant, the #2 a tad more brooding, but the similarities far outweigh any distinctives.
I don't know, Walter, perhaps the #3 sounds so much better because the #3 bore Martin is more expensive?
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:33 am Post subject:
Retlaw wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Just my opinion, obviously, but I thought the #2 sounded tinny and toy-like. I really didn't like it. The #3 sounded just like I think a trumpet should sound. In fact, it sounded so good, if I had the money, I would run to grab the checkbook and plunk the cash down right now. So there you go. Wow. What a fabulous sound with #3.
Any ideas why #2 sound would sound "toy like"....Richard? I wouldn't have thought anything out of the Adams stable would sound like that..... I am still hoping Trent will come back on this inconsistency that people seem to be hearing. I must admit I am surprised....
Walter
I think Trent nailed the issue. Smaller bore sounds better with a more open mouthpiece. I've got a '47 HN White that is medium bore and it loves MP's like a Curry TF for darker sound or a FO XT for a little brighter sound.
I thought it was my speakers at first, until Trent played the large bore. Oh my goodness. Love that sound. _________________ Richard
Here's a tease.... the large Bore with a new piece I'm making that is extremely deep (almost as deep as my super deep flugel pieces). A week of trade shows wrecked my chops but I'm slowly getting back to it.
I prefer the #2 bore , the #3 sounds to dark to my ears and i have the feel that if i play a horn like that in a amplified gig it will lost all this dark , charming sound that it have when we hear it to a small room.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 1264 Location: Kankakee, IL
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:54 am Post subject:
Maybe number two needs a backbore change or MP bore size change but the #3 large bore is better more complete sound. When pushed a tad it gets lots of brilliance but better lower end of the sound envelope as well. Some times the #2 just seems dull even though it is brighter most of the time. _________________ Kanstul Chicago 1001
CG Personal
Schilke 20D2d
Schilke 20D2d 22 throat
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3634 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:06 am Post subject:
Trent,
You sound very good on both axes, but I go with the medium bore crowd - I always thought the best Martins I played were #2 bores - you can do anything on a good one. These are patterned after Martins, right?
Large bores have cachet but are much more variable in their quality, IMO.
That's not to say that the new Adams aren't more consistent, I don't know that, but I do know how inconsistent Martin trumpets are.
I'm so curious to find out how these compare in blow and feel to vintage Committees.
Soundwise, they are both spot on and have the differences I would expect to hear between medium and large bore. _________________ '50s Martin Committee M Bore
NY Bach Strad 42
MV Bach Strad 37
ACB 3CS
I liked the number 3 much better. The sound seemed more colorful, more life like. The number two did not sound bad but clearly when compared head to head like this the #3 stole the show. It is very much like the difference between an average sounding mass produced model pick your brand and an exceptional playing model of the same brand....The difference does not have to be huge to be clearly heard and appreciated.
As too how a horn sounds behind the bell to the player......That is the worst way to pick a horn because what the artist hears is not what sells the tickets or the CD's or put's people in the seats. What comes out the bell is far more important. I think that too many trumpet players are playing horns that suck because too much is placed on what "they hear behind the bell" if it means that much to ya then have the bell turned back to face you. There is a reason our bells face the audience.
While it is almost a no brainer that if you can back off a horn a medium bore is easier to play hours on end. The problem though is that if all things are equal and in this case they are rarely does a medium bore horn sound as good as a larger bore horn.
In fact what I hear as my voice through bone condition I like and think is pleasing. What I sound like when recorded and played back I think is dreadful. TO my ear's I sound like a Silver Back Ape with a fantastic vocabulary. Other people insist that I sound pleasing and am a fantastic public speaker but I try hard not to watch video's or listen to recording of myself if I can help it! I do not like my sound but audience do. There is a similar disconnect between what the audience hears and what a player hears. You see a similar affect in pitchers that can not hit visual they have a disconnect between the image of the ball as they throw it compared to the image of the ball coming at them.
This is also why I tell people to record themselves trying out horns if they can not take another trumpet player with them. This way they get some time on the audience side. Who cares if it sounds like the Trumpets of Heaven behind the bell if it sounds like a PVC pipe and funnel trumpet out front!
WildThing,Celabration, CarolBrass's large bore 72 and 37 bell models, CG models, Kanstul Col 103, Conn .485 bore Cornet's, Bessons 2-20 .464 bore, now the A9 #3 bore all sound fantstic and out class there smaller bore equals in front of the bell. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday!
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:43 am Post subject:
that last clip had more of the brooding chet baker in it.
i wouldn't get snookered by sound clips. you have to take your mouthpiece to trent's and play both trumpets. what's that far eastern saying about the magic happening at the moment of encounter, the love, the lightening bolt.
aside from the indeterminate comparison between the A9 models, these things are the business one or the other.
what would be particularly interesting is a clip of either A9 playing a sample phrase against normal fare, a bach, the schilke B, maybe a getzen. playing the A9 against the handcraft isn't as useful as playing either against something more baseline. it would more clearly answer 'so why should i stop playing my horn and go out and get an A9'.
..chuck
Totally agree! It's about your interaction to a horn. i have to admit that I still far prefer my a1 over the a9's but i was never a committee guy. I bought 4 monettes wanting to sound like Terrence and realized I still sound like me...
Expensive realization btw!
I am open to recording more samples if people are interested tomorrow when I et back from my college gig today.
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