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High Note Nomenclature


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Hogerheyde
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic is always a matter of opinion and many debates, and it can be very confusing. Call them what you like, but you will still have to explain to others exactly which note you are talking about.
So I tend to think of notes in relation to the staff and high C (2 ledger lines up). Eg..... G below the staff. G in the staff. G above the staff. As for other notes like E where there are 2 notes in the staff. I think E first line and E 4th space.
Then notes above high C are called exactly that --- "Notes Above High C".
So it goes --- C# above high C through to B above high C. The next note is then Double C. Notes above Double C are obviously called --- "Notes Above Double C" Or If you like, Double C#, Double D, Double Eb, etc.............. Any notes above these render most of us speechless.
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rhighnote334
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Notes Nomenclature Reply with quote

I always found that naming the a after high "c" a double "a" did not make to much sense to me.I think that the logical way to go about naming the octaves will be to use the double nomenclature starting after double high "c". Meaning all notes after double high "c" should be called doubles and consequently every note after triple high "c" should be called triples. Harry.
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DizzyChrizzy01
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to summarize the above and what I heard when to talking to US trumpet players...and trying to structure it a bit, just in case someone from the non-trumpet-player (aka “real”) world googles it….

1) Double pedal tones/notes

How to find them: Go two octaves down from the C on the first auxiliary line below the staff
Names: double pedal C, D, E, F, G, A, B
Side note: the double pedal range is considered to be out of the regular range of the trumpet. It is used for practicing, not for an audience. Hopefully.


2) Pedal tones/notes

How to find them: Go one octave down from the C on the first auxiliary line below the staff
Names: pedal, C, D, E, F
Side note: the pedal range is also considered to be outside the regular range.


3) Low notes

How to find them: From the C on the first auxiliary line below the staff go 6 half tones down
Names: low F#, G, A, B
Side note: The F below low F# can be played by extending the third valve slide, has a decent sound then and is not a pedal tone. Probably people call it low F then. Or low F with extended third valve slide. Or the why-didn’t-you-call-a-trombone-player note.


4) Octave #1

How to find them: Start from the C on the first auxiliary line below the staff
Names: low C, low D, first line E, first space F, second line G, second space A, third line B,
Sometimes also: G, A, B in the staff
Alternative names: C1 … B1
Side note: I have heard of "F on top of the staff" but never of "F at the bottom of the staff". Probably I have the wrong friends...


5) Octave #2

How to find them: Start from the C in the third space of the staff
Names: Third space C, fourth line D, fourth space E, fifth line F, G on top of the staff, A above the staff, B above the staff
Sometimes also: C and D in the staff, E and F on top of the staff
Alternative names: C2 … B2
Side notes: I have heard of “A on first auxiliary line”, but rarely among trumpet players


6) Octave #3, high notes

How to find them: Go one octave up from the C in the third space of the staff
Names: high C … B
Alternative names: C3 … B3
Auxiliary lines: C is on the second auxiliary line top of the staff. B is on the fifth auxiliary line.


7) Octave #4, stratosphere

How to find them: Go two octaves up from the C in the third space of the staff
Names: double high C … B
Or: Double C … B (or dubba C … B if you like to appear younger in a forum than you actually are. People meet here and get married…), double high C is abbreviated as DHC
Alternative names: C4 … B4
Auxiliary lines: Double high C is above the fifth auxiliary line.

The next note following the octave #4 would be triple high C.

Those are the names I have heard on from player coming from the east cost of the US. Probably it is different in other areas of the US. The system is not really logical from mathematical standpoint, but at least it avoids misunderstandings. And come on, we are musicians, one last resort please…

The names "Octave #1" and so on are not common. I have assigned them for better overview in this post.

The alternative names are for example common here in Germany. Everybody knows what a double high C and a high C is, but all other notes are usually exclusively called with number, e.g. G3 instead of high G. A double high C is sometimes called double high C, sometimes C4. Probably it is the same in other European countries, but I have no reliable information.

Gordon Goowin writes at end of the tune "Jazz Police" a high F# above third auxiliary line, which being slurred up to high B written on fifth auxiliary line. If a longer phrase is played up there around and higher than high A, then arrangers often write the phrase an octave lower and add an "8 va" on top.

I love the definition above, that people who can play a high G call it "high G" and those who cannot call it "double high G".

When learning to play the double high C we trumpet players have to learn notes, which are not called "monster ultra A flat", "the audience will melt for it A", "yes I’ll get a record contract B flat", and "only one half step up and I am rich and famous B". They are simply called high A flat to high B. Too bad indeed. After mastering those, the wonderful note, which we all trumpet players are heading for, comes into reach: the "who turned all the lights off double high C".

By the way on a keyboard there is also a numbering system, but with different number. That sounds very confusing, but in real live it is not that bad, because the numbers are distant. Our trumpet players high C or C3 is a C6 on a keyboard. Those keyboard note names can be found for example in the description of big band arrangements, where the highest notes for lead trumpet, other trumpets, trombones and vocals are listed.

If an arrangement goes up to C6, then obviously not the C6 according to the German/European trumpet players’ nomenclature above is meant (dogs beware…), but the keyboard note name. This arrangement would be most likely not too difficult, when the highest lead trumpet note is a high C…

Christian
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EWerner
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pops wrote:
College level theory, composing and arranging books as well as The Harvard Dictionary of Music, Graves, All tuners, publications like the ITG Journal... change registers at C in music notation. It is done this way for every instrument so that there is uniformity.

So all notes from High C to the b above high C are in the same octave.
Theory books don't name them low, middle high or double high pitches.
Theory and composing books label octaves based on what octave it would be for piano. C1 the lowest C on the piano up to C8 the highest.

In Europe they are taught to name notes C' C'' C''' C'''' instead of low c middle c high c and double high c. It works great and you never have to say g on top of the staff or b on top of the 1st ledger line.


From playing hand bells for many years I think of ranges as which octave on the piano is this note. Middle C is in the 4th octave.
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mograph
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pops wrote:
In Europe they are taught to name notes C' C'' C''' C'''' instead of low c middle c high c and double high c.


How would you say C''''?
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OldHorn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate it when someone refers to a G, four lines above the staff as a double G. The doubles start with the C above that G.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience as both an instrumentalist and orchestra/band conductor, it's easiest to simply consider your audience.

Usually, when addressing instruments of a like kind, Middle C is what they understand it to be on their instrument. That usually means the lowest note they can play is their Low X and the other notes relate to that.

There is Grand Staff terminology which relates to all instruments, in Concert Pitch, simultaneously.

I gave up on that years ago and would rather spend time rehearsing than explaining acoustically correct notation.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldHorn wrote:
I hate it when someone refers to a G, four lines above the staff as a double G. The doubles start with the C above that G.


Is there a definitive source on this?
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to language conventions, there really isn’t a definitive source ever, at least in English. Whatever is agreed upon (either explicitly or tacitly) in any conversation is correct. There are of course agreed upon conventions depending on audience, but those still vary quite a bit.

Even the official-sounding “scientific pitch notation” of piano middle C = C4 isn’t universal. Some conventions use piano middle C = C3 (see Yamaha keyboards) and some use piano middle C = C5. They all point to the C below the treble clef or MIDI note 60, but they name that note C3, C4, or C5 depending. MIDI, computer programmers using zero indexing out of habit, and just the general inability to agree on anything means that things will get a bit messy.

As long as everyone in the conversation knows what’s being talked about, it’s correct. If anyone is confused or is arguing about nomenclature, it’s wrong, unless the goal is to argue about nomenclature. In that case, but your prescriptivist hat on and find the expert that agrees with the position of your choosing.
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TrpM
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mograph wrote:
Pops wrote:
In Europe they are taught to name notes C' C'' C''' C'''' instead of low c middle c high c and double high c.


How would you say C''''?


In German it is "viergestrichenes C" which could possibly be translated as something like "C with 4 apostrophs" or "C with 4 quotation marks".
However, also common is simply C4. Well, actually I never talk about this note. It´s out of reach anyway. But the note one octave below (i.e. high C) is commonly referred to as "C drei", i.e. C three.
This can theoretically add even more confusion, because in scientific notation this "C3" is a C6.

This Wikipedia entry has a nice overview over the different naming systems (there I just learned that the ''' system is called Helmholtz naming system): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave
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Bill Ortiz
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always have referred to G above high C as "high G." I've thought that the "double high" started with the A one step higher. Is that incorrect?
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