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Bach C trumpet leadpipes


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ToTrumpet014
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Bach C trumpet leadpipes Reply with quote

I'm getting a C trumpet soon and since I'm on a budget I'll probably be getting a used a Bach. I've been looking at some old threads on this site and watching some of the HornTrader's videos on Youtube and I've noticed the only Bach C trumpet leadpipes people ever talk about are the 25C, 25H, and 25A pipes. What about the 7, 43, and 44 pipes? Do these leadpipes just suck and that's why no plays them? Have they been discontinued?



I got this info from the Bach Loyalist site.

http://www.bachloyalist.com/bach-trumpets-leadpipes/
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musicman0097
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, people use the 25S. I believe that's one of the best pipes. I have played many pipes including a 43. I thought the 43 pipe was too bright for a C trumpet and would sound better on a Bb, but that's just my opinion. But they are still around. I don't see them as much though.
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irith
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For your first C trumpet, I HIGHLY recommend a 25A pipe. I think it's the most balanced type of leadpipe for C trumpets. It will be big like the 25H, but with more stability and center. The non-25 leadpipes can work, but IMO there's a reason they're not more commonly used. If you are unsatisfied with a Bach 25 of some sort, I think you should look outside Bach. Charlie Melk and Ken Larson would be my top two choices.

Also, don't necessarily be fooled by what may initially feel easier if you haven't played a lot of C trumpet before. I would recommend getting another copy of your current Bb mouthpiece with a 24 throat and 24 backbore - this is the most standard setup for orchestral C playing, and will likely feel more comfortable, especially at high volumes.
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Bach leadpipes Reply with quote

Hello 014,
I agree with getting a 25A pipe. It is longer than the C and H pipe I recollect and plays with more stability IMO. The 25S pipe makes the horn play and sound more like a Bb...Not neccessarily what you want in a C horn.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irith wrote:
I would recommend getting another copy of your current Bb mouthpiece with a 24 throat and 24 backbore.

+1
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tptjazzboy28
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shared this on another "Bach C leadpipe" thread recently, but I think it's worth sharing again. There's some great information in this article on Osmun Music's site.

http://www.osmun.com/reference/cpipe.htm
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rockford
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're on a budget and want to buy a Bach C trumpet I suggest you find an unaltered instrument in your price range and not worry about the bell or leadpipe numbers. Don't even look at them. Just play it and ignore the numbers. I say this because there are so many "improvements" out there that may give player X with a Y mouthpiece a few percentage points of improvement but can often come at the expense of other aspects of playing. If you decide to play the bell/leadpipe modification game save it for when you have a bigger budget. You"ll need it.
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irith wrote:
For your first C trumpet, I HIGHLY recommend a 25A pipe. I think it's the most balanced type of leadpipe for C trumpets. It will be big like the 25H, but with more stability and center. The non-25 leadpipes can work, but IMO there's a reason they're not more commonly used. If you are unsatisfied with a Bach 25 of some sort, I think you should look outside Bach. Charlie Melk and Ken Larson would be my top two choices.

Also, don't necessarily be fooled by what may initially feel easier if you haven't played a lot of C trumpet before. I would recommend getting another copy of your current Bb mouthpiece with a 24 throat and 24 backbore - this is the most standard setup for orchestral C playing, and will likely feel more comfortable, especially at high volumes.


+1
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ToTrumpet014
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd prefer to get a used Yamaha but I'm focusing on Bach since their are far more used Bachs for sale than Yamahas.

I have to admit I'm a bit weary of getting a Bach C because I've play tested 11 Bach Bb instruments and of those 11 have only liked 2 and even so I still like my Yamaha Bb much more.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToTrumpet014 wrote:
I'd prefer to get a used Yamaha but I'm focusing on Bach since their are far more used Bachs for sale than Yamahas.

I have to admit I'm a bit weary of getting a Bach C because I've play tested 11 Bach Bb instruments and of those 11 have only liked 2 and even so I still like my Yamaha Bb much more.

You'd probably like the Xeno C trumpet, more, in that case.
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irith
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToTrumpet014 wrote:
I'd prefer to get a used Yamaha but I'm focusing on Bach since their are far more used Bachs for sale than Yamahas.

I have to admit I'm a bit weary of getting a Bach C because I've play tested 11 Bach Bb instruments and of those 11 have only liked 2 and even so I still like my Yamaha Bb much more.


C is very different than Bb. There are MANY C trumpets I like a lot now that I didn't really like when I started on C, because I wasn't used to the horn. If you can playtest, I think it's a good idea to get an experienced C trumpet player that you trust to also playtest them. People have their preferences but a good player can tell you whether it's a good horn or not. It honestly takes a while before you like any C more than your Bb, so don't worry too much about that. Assuming you've also used your normal Bb mouthpiece to test them, that also affects things and might give you an unfair impression of what you tried.

Alternatively, if you buy a cheap enough horn, you can send it off to a good tech and get it tweaked into playing well - valve alignment, bore correction, maybe a new leadpipe.

Yamaha C's aren't bad either, though I personally wouldn't get one other than the Artist series. I do prefer the 6xxx series over the Xenos. Have you tried any?
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Krumcake
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in the c trumpet market a couple of years ago after selling my B&S (which was a great horn...just not exactly what I was looking for). Due to my budget, I was limited to used horns.

From previous play-testing I pretty much knew that I wanted a Bach 239. I was specifically looking for a 25A or 25LR (I just don't like the 25C or 25H). However, there was a great deal on Dillon Music's website for a 239/7R, so I decided to give it a try.

Let me tell you, it's a great horn and I love it! I have no problem cutting through a big orchestra or easing things up for solo/chamber work. Still has your typical Bach C tuning issues--though noticeably not as bad as the 25H or 25C, imho. High register doesn't get stuffy for me either.

Conclusion: Don't shy away from a leadpipe just because it is not one of the "popular" ones.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockford wrote:
If you're on a budget and want to buy a Bach C trumpet I suggest you find an unaltered instrument in your price range and not worry about the bell or leadpipe numbers. Don't even look at them. Just play it and ignore the numbers. I say this because there are so many "improvements" out there that may give player X with a Y mouthpiece a few percentage points of improvement but can often come at the expense of other aspects of playing. If you decide to play the bell/leadpipe modification game save it for when you have a bigger budget. You"ll need it.
Probably easier to get your money back when you sell an unaltered one as well. I also agree that the old Yam 6445 and 6445II horns were very good for the money. I had a Malone version of a 6445HG that I wish I could get back again. The stock ones would be perfect for someone learning to play C, probably good enough for most people on this site for what they're doing. Really. Good luck.
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ToTrumpet014
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up getting a Bach after all. I found a used Bach 236/25C that plays great, I actually like its sound better than my Xeno Bb. Intonation's decent, about equal to my old Yamaha 2335 in that respect. I'm surprised at how clear and focus its sounds since every Bach Bb I've tried sounded dull and lacked core.
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musicman0097
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on the new horn! Hope it works well for you. How does the 236 play?
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ToTrumpet014
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

musicman0097 wrote:
Congratulations on the new horn! Hope it works well for you. How does the 236 play?


It plays great, it feels somewhat tighter than my Xeno Bb but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The upper register slots better than on my Bb and the sound is bright, focused, and really projects. According to the Bach Loyalist website, it's actually a D trumpet bell but I don't care since it works for me regardless of whats stamped on the bell.
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rockford
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToTrumpet014 wrote:
musicman0097 wrote:
Congratulations on the new horn! Hope it works well for you. How does the 236 play?
I don't care since it works for me regardless of whats stamped on the bell.

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lmaraya
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have someone tried replacing a stock 25A with another bach leadpipe? a Student of mine sent his 229/25A to a tech to have him put a 25R+tunning slide but he says that the 25R fits shorter than the 25A and he is afraid that it would mess the intonation. Has someone done that? what solutions there are for this?
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Blue Trane
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmaraya wrote:
Have someone tried replacing a stock 25A with another bach leadpipe? a Student of mine sent his 229/25A to a tech to have him put a 25R+tunning slide but he says that the 25R fits shorter than the 25A and he is afraid that it would mess the intonation. Has someone done that? what solutions there are for this?


The A pipe is a longer leadpipe so replacing it could present some difficulties. I would consult with Jim Becker on this. jbecker@osmun.com
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laser170323
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone try the new 25M pipe? Wondering what it's like.
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