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Pedal C concerns


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jztrumpeter
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Pedal C concerns Reply with quote

Is it necessary to be able to play pedal C open? I find that the only way I can hit it consistently while playing through Stamp's exercises is when I play it with all my valves down. Does this matter? Or should I be able to play it open as well?
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davidkoch
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figure out how to play it open. It's much more beneficial. Try it on C trumpet first as that is much easier, then move to a Bb. Use lots of air, and keep the same setup as you do for the normal range-no funky shifting.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MQd-ymDNkQ
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tptmed
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Open up your spit key as you play it. It will come out. After you get that feeling, you'll be able to get it open.
You're welcome!!
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Diane Bruce
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh I remember when I first discovered these pedal notes in high school. I can still hit them on a Bflat or C horn though I have no embouchure left to speak of.
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connicalman
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been tryng for 4 years, and have just this week hit it. Yay! Loosened up my chops while delivering enough airflow, kept the chin and lips the same. It's weak, but that first pedal F was weak at first, too!
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jztrumpeter
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the video David, it helped a lot.

tptmed wrote:
Open up your spit key as you play it. It will come out. After you get that feeling, you'll be able to get it open.
You're welcome!!


Wow, it slots right away when I open the spit key. How come it's much easier with the spit key open?
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PW-Factor
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jztrumpeter wrote:
Thanks for the video David, it helped a lot.

tptmed wrote:
Open up your spit key as you play it. It will come out. After you get that feeling, you'll be able to get it open.
You're welcome!!


Wow, it slots right away when I open the spit key. How come it's much easier with the spit key open?


I would guess it disrupts / alters the nodal pattern in a way that makes the medal speak better. I know that I've seen a video of Steve Reid using his water key to trill a Double C, too.
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swthiel
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) To get used to playing the pedal C open, you might also consider using a flugelhorn.

2) The pedal C tends to be very flat -- when you're first starting, consider letting it be flat until it's stable, then bring it in tune.
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mikasaren
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swthiel wrote:
1) To get used to playing the pedal C open, you might also consider using a flugelhorn.

2) The pedal C tends to be very flat -- when you're first starting, consider letting it be flat until it's stable, then bring it in tune.


Fluegelhorn is actually closer to trombone family of brass instruments and has very easy and playable pedal-C. As does the trombone.

Trumpet on the other hand is not - and there is no real pedal C. It is playable but not native to the instrument. There are other pedal tones though...

My vote is "keep all buttons pressed" for trumpet pedal C and adjust with ear.
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loudog
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great topic...

First, you need to ask yourself WHY you are practicing pedal tones, and what you hope to gain from them. Don't just play them because you think you should.

Second, I believe that if you want to REALLY practice pedal tones, your goal should be to be able to play it open. Playing pedal tones is not just about playing in that register, but playing PROPERLY in that register. If you cannot play an open pedal C, then you aren't playing at your peak efficiency. Being able to develop an open pedal C requires that the buzz be perfectly balanced and controlled. If you just "give up" and play it 123, you are bypassing what, in my opinion, is the benefit of practicing in that register period.

That being said...I know guys who can play an open pedal C that aren't great trumpet players. I also know guys who can NOT play an open pedal C that are incredible trumpet players. I know guys who don't practice pedals at all that are incredible trumpet players. Your mileage may vary.

For me, aiming for that open pedal C has been VERY beneficial. To others, perhaps not.

Good luck!

Louie
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DWallace
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last summer when I decided to get more serious about practicing I started on Gordon's Systematic Approach. This method stresses pedal tones and after a 35 year vacation from trumpet playing I had never heard much about pedals tones.

It has taken about ten months and I can get pedal C to pop out maybe half of the time. It is still very flat but getting better. My key is to get the pedal tones and play arpeggios from the pedal register up with the same embouchure.

Over the 10 months I have been working this method my range, endurance and accuracy have improved.

That is what I was wanting. Pedal tones is just a part of that process.
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swthiel
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, getting the open pedal C to speak on a flugel (and on a cornet) was important psychologically -- as evidence that I actually could play it open and that it would just be a little work (well, maybe more than a little) to get it to speak on trumpet.

I think loudog's second point gets to the heart of the matter, and probably is why Stamp notates the C as open. My personal experience is that my playing became a lot more efficient once I got the open pedal C. That said, I think the Stamp material is great even when you do the pedal C's as 123 -- don't postpone working on it until you get the open pedal C working well!

It is also worth repeating that the pedals are supposed to be connected to the rest of your range ... no cheating with a quick reset masked by a breath!
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PW-Factor
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found my open pedal more often than not ends up being more of a B or Bb. I am having trouble bringing it up to pitch. I can, but it is certainly difficult.
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loudog
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swthiel wrote:
For me, getting the open pedal C to speak on a flugel (and on a cornet) was important psychologically -- as evidence that I actually could play it open and that it would just be a little work (well, maybe more than a little) to get it to speak on trumpet.

I think loudog's second point gets to the heart of the matter, and probably is why Stamp notates the C as open. My personal experience is that my playing became a lot more efficient once I got the open pedal C. That said, I think the Stamp material is great even when you do the pedal C's as 123 -- don't postpone working on it until you get the open pedal C working well!

It is also worth repeating that the pedals are supposed to be connected to the rest of your range ... no cheating with a quick reset masked by a breath!


Well said.
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loudog
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend using Jim Thompson's Buzzing Book...this was what did it for me as to finally being able to truly play an open pedal C. It's just a damn good book anyway.
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trombino
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allow me to be the contrarian. Practice something that will make you a better musician.....like music.
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jztrumpeter
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trombino wrote:
Allow me to be the contrarian. Practice something that will make you a better musician.....like music.


Make music?! Nah, that's crazy talk
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swthiel
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loudog wrote:
I recommend using Jim Thompson's Buzzing Book...this was what did it for me as to finally being able to truly play an open pedal C. It's just a damn good book anyway.

Great resource!
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swthiel
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trombino wrote:
Allow me to be the contrarian. Practice something that will make you a better musician.....like music.

Maybe it's pedantic for me to point this out, but this is the Stamp forum. If you think pedals (or mouthpiece work, or lip buzzing) are a waste of time, there are plenty of other places on TH to post.

Besides, if you play the Stamp exercises correctly, they are music, and what I've learned following the Stamp approach has improved both my sound and my musicality.
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mdavis
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trombino wrote:
Allow me to be the contrarian. Practice something that will make you a better musician.....like music.


The point of doing the Stamp stuff, along with other famous teachers ideas, is that if you are playing the trumpet correctly than when you get to the music you can truly focus on the "Music" and not the mechanics of playing the trumpet.

To get more philosophical, what defines music? Couldn't anything be music? I remember hearing about an art gallery with a urinal on the wall. To that artist that was art.

Also, didn't Herseth say something like never practice, always perform. So when we pick up the trumpet shouldn't we always try to be playing "music"
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