Best valves ever made?

[Craig Swartz]

Wow- old thread…

Through my experience and with a lot of horns owned over the years, my vote would go to Schilke. Not only are they good from the factory but they are ridiculously simple to maintain and seem to last forever. For example, I sent Steve Winans (Dr Valve) a CXL I use almost daily that was built in 1968 for some work. He claimed it did not need a rebuild, merely did an easy re-lap as well as some other non-piston work I requested and returned it. Have another old (1969) B3 that's never been rebuilt and is lightning quick. P5-4 has never offered problems, neither the E2 or any of the other older Schilke horns. I believe the stroke is slightly shorter than my Bachs or Benges as well.

Hands down the "winner", IMO, regardless of how one feels about the sound, slotting, etc. Best wishes.

[Steve Hollahan]

Love my Bach Valves, but some Selmer work is questionable.
_________________
Steve Hollahan
Bach 37, 229 C
Yamaha 9620 D-Eb, 741 C, Flugel
Kanstul 900 piccolo trumpet
Sculptured Recrafting Custom Instrument Repair
and Restoration
www.sculpturedrecrafting.com

[plp]

[Bill Martin]

Valves? I own Selmer, Conn, Bach, Eastman, Jupiter, and Olds cornets, trumpets, slide and valve trombones, and euphoniums.
NOBODY beats the valves made by Olds.

[chuck in ny]

STAINLESS STEEL VALVES
At some period over the last few years Boosey & Hawkes [Besson] changed their valve material from Monel, or similar, to stainless steel. Presumably this was to make the manufacturing process cheaper. [The normal process is to start with a larger diameter valve tube to take the pressure of passage insertion, and then grind it down to size.] This crass decision of using Stainless Steel has now put a finite life on an instrument. Stainless steel is not a bearing material. Any good engineer will tell you this. So what happens? A valve, made of material as hard as the cutlery we use to eat, is in constant frictional contact with the relatively soft brass of the instrument casing. So instead of the two different bearing materials ‘mating’ together,
i.e. Brass/Monel/German Silver etc., the stainless steel valve grinds out the valve casing itself on each depression by the player. Add a small blemish to the stainless steel and we have the perfect scourer.
Of course, as Stainless Steel is not a bearing material, valves stick – the player takes them out, believing that oil is needed. This grinds & scores the inner casing even more when they re-insert them. In a very short time the valve casing of the instrument becomes triangular in section.
The reason for this is: looking at a valve, it can be approximately sectioned into three vertical banks of holes with three continuous lengths of metal separating them. The latter, having more mass, grind away the casing at a different rate to the holed sections. Q.E.D. triangular casings = ruined instrument.
Prove it yourselves. Loosen the top valve cap of your ‘Besson’ Tuba, Tenor Horn etc, lift the valve clear of the pin, then carefully rotate the valve. Does it rotate freely, or does it feel like driving on a flat tyre? If the latter – yes, you’ve very likely got Stainless Steel valves and your casings are getting nicely chewed.


these comments are by denis wedgwood from a post by gordon h. i greatly respect denis' acumen. on the other hand the same goes for the people at carol brass and adams. can anyone reconcile this?

[MacMichael]

I think this is panic-mongering by the monel mafia..

[Sustained note]

[amigomatt]

The best valves BY FAR that I have ever used are on my Stomvi Master C trumpet. I know these guys are also master jewellers and I'm sure this heritage has something to do with the precision of it. Even the slides are noticeably smooth fitting. Everything 'pops' and there seems to be a weight and springback sort of feeling to them whilst remaining smooth and soft which gives the impression of instantaneous action and speed. I can definitely play faster things better on them and they are so direct. A noticeable step up from any of my other horns and anything else I've tried.

I did get that kind of speed of action with a Ganschhorn when I tried it though, but obviously a different design with them being rotary.
_________________
Kanstul 1500A
Bach Strad LB25 43 leadpipe (modified)
Stomvi Master C
Schilke P 5-4 piccolo
Bach flugel
Yamaha D/Eb
Stork mouthpieces
http://northernhorn.wordpress.com/
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[blbaumgarn]

This is a great discussion even if I am adding years after the first string. I don't have the experience with Kanstul. I tried two different Bessons in a shop. Was impressed by both but didn't play long enough to rate valves with other horns. For me subjectively it is:

Getzen, first by a long ways
Schilke, second and very, very good
Benge, third although I always felt like the throw was longer
Yamaha, fourth, as I played a student model for a week long
ago while mine Benge was being serviced.

If trumpet valves were a space shuttle I would always play Getzen so I knew I would be coming back safe and sound. thanks for a great topic, God Bless.

[Brad361]

[RandyTX]

I'm a bit surprised about the praise for the Ambassador valve block. They're certainly reliable enough, but they feel much too heavy in their action, almost distractingly mechanical. In short, I don't like them at all.

That said, I really like the valves on my super and recording horns.

I don't think the monel vs. stainless steel thing makes much difference. I have good horns with both. Take care of them, keep them clean and use good oil, it shouldn't matter.

Mountain, meet mole hill.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."

[rufflicks]

I love the valves on the Honda CB700SC Nighthawk 700S

The four-cylinder engine featured double overhead cams, with hydraulic lifters which eliminated valve adjustments. That and this was a cool bike.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB700SC

Best, Jon
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Remember this is supposed to be fun.

[trumpjosh]