K Tongue Modified and SuperChops

[Roel.Flores]

How are these different?
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Roel Flores

[trumpetplanet]

Followers of the teachings of Claude Gordon will get very passionate in telling you how he is right and Superchops is wrong. The fundamental differences are in how far forward in the mouth the tongue is placed and the volume of air that is used. When I was taught in a "K-modified" way I was told that the tip on the tongue is anchored at the base of the bottom teeth, although I have read arguments on this forum that state that that is a misunderstanding too.
Superchops does not use the idea of syllables or vowel sounds to adjust the pitch of notes, instead we talk about compression of the air with the thickening of the tongue and gripping of the lips against the tongue.

This is a pretty basic starting point.
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UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/

[digs]

Very good starting point. The articulation point is certainly farther forward with MSC.

[Roel.Flores]

I was watching the MSC video again and saw the tongue placement. Somehow I missed it the first time. All I remember was the "spit buzz"

lol

thanks
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Roel Flores

[tptguy]

For those of us whom come from previous training, I believe this can be quite tricky - until the first moments you feel and hear actual MSC 'happen'. Then, the rich, focused, and vibrant sound (repeatable every day), great ease of play through all currently available registers (range comes AFTER efficient technique), and spot-on intonation tell all. That's why Jerry preaches that sound leads the way. For most of us, there are many intermediate moments when we may sorta be on track, but aren't quite. But stay with the MSC practice concepts and routines and the aha moment will come.

To greatly speed the way, remember that MSC must not utilize K-tonguing technique or tongue arching, nor can it use anchored tonguing (beyond the very beginning stages). Unlike K-tonguing, the MSC tongue is always through the teeth - the very wide and thick wedge of the tongue, not the tip. Arching against the roof of the mouth, no matter how forward it may be, pulls back against the wedge and prevents MSC. And unlike anchored tonguing, no part of the MSC tongue is ever anchored to the lower teeth. Because the wedge of the tongue must be free to move back and up with the grip of the lower lip, anchored tonguing also prevents MSC. FWIW - careful scrutiny of Harry James videos on YouTube provided the aha moment for me. Jerry told me this for years and in time, it did!

Best to all, Kyle

[tptguy]

The spit buzz can also be tricky, IMHO. Once MSC is in place then the spit buzz truly sounds like MSC. In hindsight, I realize that's why Jerry always starts a lesson by asking for a spit buzz. But rather than correct the spit buzz, Jerry moves back to lips and tongue. That was very frustrating to me. But now I get it. Once the lips and tongue work correctly then the spit buzz very, very rapidly advances MSC. The spit buzz steers things in the right direction, but only works its real magic with genuine MSC. Then, it truly is magic. So try not to get frustrated: a correct spit buzz captures MSC and MSC captures a correct spit buzz. In time they will become one. And then, you'll hear it!

Best to all, Kyle