Have you ever purchased an Ebay horn from Canada?

ARB · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:06 am Post subject:

If so, did you experience any problems with customs? Were the charges high?
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livertwist · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:26 am Post subject:

Hi.

I can comment about buying horns from the States and bringing them INTO Canada. I don't know what the charges are your way, but coming up here it varies. We are only supposed to have a 7% tax (that's our country-wide goods & services tax) on the total cost of the instrument. There usually is no additional charges or problems unless UPS is involved (I like USPS the best, on a side note). For some reason, they seem to love to add "brokerage" fees to everything, tacking on anything from $20 - $50 depending on the size/weight, etc. The weird thing is, they don't *always* charge you these fees, just sometimes. So I dunno. If they do, I just add it to the mental cost of the instrument as there's nothing I can do about it. Customs has only given me a problem one time - it took nearly 6 weeks for me to see a horn that was shipped up here. I think it was because it was right around Christmas, so that was likely unavoidable. Most of the time, it takes about 6 business days for a horn to arrive, ground-shipped. I'd love to hear about how much the duties/expenses are to ship trumpets to the States - I've shipped quite a few but never heard as to how much it cost the recipients.

Oliver

wardsd · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Mar 2003 Posts: 504

I just recently bought a trumpet from a shop in canada. No issues with customs. However, they shipped it UPS and there was a $21 charge at the door when they delivered it. I understand if it was shipped in the standard post office there wouldn't be the additional charge.

Steve

trombapaul2 · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:59 am Post subject:

What you're experiencing with UPS is an added charge for doing the necessary Customs
paperwork filings. Even if the item is duty-free (if it's US or Canadian made), there is still paperwork that needs to be done by a licensed broker and they don't do it for free!! The amount charged is based on a percentage of the invoice total so it can vary if you're talking about a $300.00 horn as opposed to a $2300.00 horn. You don't see this extra charge with Postal Service because, due to the volume of goods shipped cross border, brokerage fees can be built into the postage rates.

Duties and taxes are based on how much of a specific product is manufactured in a given country. For example, any NEW trumpet being shipped into Canada will always be duty-free because there are no Canadian trumpet manufacturers. Or, if there are, the number of them is so low, there is no discernable impact on the industry so one US made Kanstul going to Montreal will not take work away from any Canadian worker. However, any NEW non-US made horn (Yamaha, Amati, Monke, etc.) coming into the States from Canada or anywhere else, should be dutiable because there so many trumpet makers here, someone is bound to lose work because of that import. There are exceptions to this. If the horn coming into the States is US made (Bach, Conn, ZeuS, etc.), NAFTA regulations apply and the horn is duty-free. If the horn, regardless of original Country of Origin, is USED and declared as such, it's duty-free. In my dealings with Customs agencies and brokers in the tool and die industry, I've learned that, typically, the people that call themselves "Customs Experts" haven't got a clue what they're looking at so they will classify an item such that it comes up as a duty free item even though it may in fact, be dutiable. Sometimes vice-versa. The shippers need to be very clear and specific on the shipping documents (Customs Invoices) about Country of Origin (where it was made, not shipped from), what the item is (not just "trumpet" but list all the bells and whistles about the horn), and whether the horn is new or used. Hope this rambling clears up some of your questions.

Paul

livertwist · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:08 pm Post subject:

Paul,

Thanks for the info. And regarding the brokerage fees - that's exactly why I don't like to use UPS. I'd rather pay one fee for shipping, not their ridiculous rates for filling out some paperwork. It's bad enough we have to pay GST to Canada customs but to be dinged on top of that AND shipping charges that have already been paid is very frustrating. Canada Post/USPS all the way!

Oliver

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Great summary, Trombo. Just to add to that, here is the Cdn Customs website. Scroll down to "Section XVIII" and then click on item 92. That'll open an adobe file and you work your way down to 9205.10.00 & etc. This is for importing into Canada. Perhaps there is a similar site for US Customs? Anyone?

Edit: Ooopsie. http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca/customs/general/publications/tariff2001/tablewithamendments-e.html
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[ This Message was edited by: Tootsall on 2003-09-12 15:22 ]

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

What Oliver just said. And I am unanimous in that!

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Oh, and to add to the above. If you live in Canada and are reasonably close to the US border, you can frequently find a UPS or other courier shipping warehouse "just across on the US side". Have your horn shipped from your US seller to that warehouse, paying DOMESTIC US courier fees (far lower than International rates). Call the warehouse in about a week and confirm it is there. Then drive down, pay them a $5 US "handling fee", and take delivery. Inspect right "then and there" so that, if necessary to return due to shipping damage etc, you can do so FROM THE WAREHOUSE. If you decide to accept the product, bring it across the border yourself paying the GST at the customs house. $10 worth of gas and a couple of hours of your time will more than pay for itself.

Several of our band people do that, purchasing from MUSIC123, etc. and it works great for them: everything from tubas to clarinets and flutes!

trombapaul2 · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject:

Tootsall,

I've yet to come up with a comparable website for US Customs codes. I don't know
why!!!

Maybe they're just more secretive over here about that info. Licensed brokers
have access to a website but they need a US Customs issued password.

Regarding the codes, the Canadian and US codes are very similar. Because the coding
system for the US, Canada, and Mexico is "Harmonized", the first six digits will always
be the same no matter what the product. After that, the numbers get very industry and item specific. Trumpets going into Canada are coded 9205.10.00.10. Coming into the States, I believe the code is 9205.10.0080. Going into Mexico would be 9205.10.yadda-yadda-yadda. If you're shipping a cutting tool like an end mill, the code will start with 8207.70 no matter where it's going to in North America.
If a horn is being shipped from anywhere into North America, the paperwork should specify 9205.10 and more than likely, the classification process will be quick and painless.

Paul

[ This Message was edited by: trombapaul2 on 2003-09-12 15:52 ]

[ This Message was edited by: trombapaul2 on 2003-09-12 15:59 ]

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Yep...I always ask the shipper to specify on the green slip "Duty free under customs tariff 9205.10.10". Saves some overworked clerk a hassle looking it up and that means they're less likely to hassle me!

ARB · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:32 pm Post subject:

Good advice Tootsall, I'll make sure to request that the seller do that when I purchase a horn outside the US.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C

"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing"