Things to look for in a Monette Horn

etownfwd · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:59 pm Post subject:

For about 3 years now, I have been an avid Monette user. Let me begin by saying that no one can talk me out of their equipment. For years, though, I have lusted after a Monette horn and now might finally be able to afford one directly from the shop. I have booked flights and everything and I am excited to try a truly professional quality horn. Now the questions that I pose the trumpet community-at-large is what to listen for or hope to feel in this horn that will make it a leap above my Bach Stradavarius 37? While Monette and non-monette'rs alike are welcome to comment, please don't take this as an open invitation to bash Monette and/or his products. Thanks for whatever help any of ya'll can be!
-efwd

jhatpro · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:14 pm Post subject:

I think the "what to look and listen for" is the same for any horn:

-- Response. Does the horn "speak easily." Does it play effortlessly in all dynamic ranges.

-- Sound. Is it full and rich with the degree of bright or dark timbre and "edge" that sounds good to you.

-- Intonation. Pretty obvious. If you need to use your slides a lot to stay in tune the horn may have a problem.

-- Projection. Does it let you peel paint if you like? Can you reach the back of the hall?

-- Playability. Is it stuffy or open?

-- Slotting. Does it take you to the center of pitches or do you have to fight to get there?

-- Fit and finish. Is it well made with no sloppy joints and solder where it shouldn't be.

-- Valve action. As fast and smooth as you like?

-- Cosmetics. Do you really, really like the way it looks?

These are the first things that come to me when I evaluate a trumpet. I'm sure there are other factors to consider as well. Perhaps other THers will have some suggestions.

Good luck with your purchase!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

etownfwd · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:19 pm Post subject:

Jim,
just curious about something. Can a horn be dark, yet still have an "edge" or "rub" to a sound? Somehow this strikes my ears as the same sound qualities that Wynton can achieve on his Monette's, but is that something that is readily attainable on horns other than monettes? Thanks for the ideas!
-efwd

jhatpro · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:40 pm Post subject:

I think it's almost as challenging to describe the various qualities of sound as it is the flavor of food. (Think about it: aside from using well-known descriptors such as sweet, salty, sour, and savory, trying to characterize the precise flavor of, say, a salmon entre or a lemon souffle is very difficult.)

Yes, I think a horn can have a sound that's both dark and edgey. However, saying that a sound "is dark" or "has an edge", probably means different things to different listeners, depending on their experience and vocabulary. You almost have to play some pitches and say, "that's what I mean by an edge" and see if the other listener agrees.

Another thing about sound: I'm not sure it's determined entirely by the horn. I've heard knowledgeable players and listeners say that certain players -- Wynton or Maynard or Chet, for example -- would sound like themselves on a variety of different horns. I think it's true that a much of the sound of a horn comes from the ability of the player to translate what he or she pre-hears into what comes out of the horn.

At the same time, I think it's probably true that certain horns enhance (but not guarantee) the ability of a player to get a certain sound. If you're looking to sound like Terence Blanchard, for example, you'll probably get a lot closer with a Monette than your Bach.

Keep us posted on your decision, will you? I think a lot of people fantasize owning a Monette and would appreciate your findings.

_________________
Jim Hatfield/Chicago Area
"Collect trumpets. They're cheaper than violins and safer than guns."

[ This Message was edited by: jhatpro on 2003-09-14 19:42 ]

[ This Message was edited by: jhatpro on 2003-09-14 21:00 ]

Brian Johnson · Regular Member Joined: 27 Nov 2001 Posts: 42

Me thinks that if you need all that "guidance" in buying a new horn, you shouldn't yet be playing
the coveted "Monette" ......

or are you just bragging about being able to afford one ..

Brian

[ This Message was edited by: Brian Johnson on 2003-09-14 19:40 ]

mafields627 · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:55 pm Post subject:

Methinks that someone did not read the entire original post.

There are so many characterics that you look for in a horn that it can be confusing when trying one out. You're lucky that you will have the experts for that particular brand right there, at your disposal, to answer your questions as opposed to a non-musical mom and 8th grade player "trying out" a Bach at the local "music" (read: guitar and drum) shop.

jhatpro gave you a good list of things to look for. Take that list and write down your needs/wants and take it with you that way you won't be guessing about what you want.

Remember, there may be particular quirks about that horn that you won't be able to figure out until after the purchase (just like ANY other horn or mouthpiece) so be ready for them.

Good Luck! and let us know what you come back with.

Matt

atom_anderson · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:59 pm Post subject:

I think that the horn you end up with depends quite a bit on the type of music you expect to play with the Monette. They have a wide range of trumpets for different styles and preferences for a trumpet and they will seriously work with you to make sure that you are matched with the best possible horn for you. It's probably a good idea to prepare for any questions they will ask of you. I believe that Monette corp. has a questionnaire on their website to address the specifics of a horn that's right for you. I would recommend preparing yourself for the questions that you will be asked when deciding upon trumpet that they will build just for you.

If you play a lot of jazz, do you relate more to the sound of Miles Davis? Wynton Marsalis? Maynard F? The sound you are looking for will help determine whether you really want a heavier horn, a lighter horn, etc. Do you like a very free blowing trumpet, or do you prefer a little more feedback (resistance). What type of slotting do you want with a trumpet, etc...

Good luck with your Monette purchase. I'm interested in hearing which model you choose and what the selection process is like. I actually am not a monette owner, but someday I might be...

-Atom

E.D.Lewis · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:03 pm Post subject:

It might just be me, but I think the mouthpiece makes more of a difference in sound than the horn. Now, I've never dealt with the extremes of light vs. heavy that the Monette line now offers, but on your average horn my own sound usually shows up eventually. Just one more factor for you to consider. Other than that I'd second (or third) the list Jim has offered above. Have fun and do keep us posted on your trip. And yeah, I'm a little jealous......
_________________
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

DavesTrumpet · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:24 pm Post subject:

You should contact Monette company and request their booklet which discusses in detail all this. (I can't remember what the book is called. It's a catalog of sorts but very high quality one with all kinds of info; mine is at work right now or I'd tell you what they call it). Anyway contact the company and have them send one out. Also, you might want to visit their website and familiarize yourself with their concepts, etc.

Dave M

Terry Barnett · New Member Joined: 09 Jan 2002 Posts: 5

I was a Strad 37 player (with a Monette B2 mouthpiece) when I visited the Monette shop. I liked the Bach sound, and I wasn't set on getting a Monette horn. I was blown away by how much easier/better the Monettes played than my Bach, in every way. Also, I expected to like the 937, and I didn't; it was too much of a sound difference from what I was used to. (I liked the entry level 149, and the 2000 LT. I ended up getting a 2000 LT, and I'm happy I did. Also, I really enjoyed the shop tour, from Tom Rainey -- a very nice guy.) I guess my point here is have in mind the sound you want, and take your time having fun with some great horns.

In regard to other comments about how much difference the horn makes versus the mouthpiece, I think it made a difference for me to be trying horns only, not horns and mouthpieces simultaneously. If you think you know what mouthpiece you'll want, you might consider buying one and getting used to it with the Bach before you go to Portland. Often mouthpieces can be gotten used (at this site or on eBay), and if you end up with an extra mouthpiece (one or two come with the horn, depending on the model), my experience has been they're pretty easy to resell. (To some extent this presumes you're considering one of the lighter horns, that calls for a STC1 mouthpiece, which is the weight you'd use with a Bach. If you're considering a heavy horn, like the Ajna, the rim and cup might be the same on heavier mouthpieces as in the STC1, but they might not play exactly the same.)
Cheers, Terry

_Don Herman · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:34 pm Post subject:

The Schilke Loyalist site has an article on what to listen for when considering a horn purchase:

http://www.dallasmusic.org/schilke/index.html

HTH - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

Vessehune · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:50 pm Post subject:

Ok Don't shoot me. If you want a Monette and it works for your great. Just beware that the one you try in the shop may not be anything like the one you get in the end. I fellow student at school got a Monette C and just absolutly hated it when she got it. I think she's gotten used to it, but I haven't asked. There is also another student up here that got a Bb at the same time, and he absolutly loves his horn.

Just wanted to throw out a word of caution.

doitallman · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:29 pm Post subject:

Just go there and you will find what you like on your own.
It's hard to go in there looking for things, usually they will jump out at you when you hear or see them.
In other words go there and have fun finding out what you like and don't like. If there is something wrong you will know it automatically. Then you can have fun finding out what you do like.
Man I'm jelous of the journey you have ahead of you.

Good luck!

Let us know what you find out.

drunkiq · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:28 am Post subject:

first try out all the models....

pic the ones that you reacted to the best....

take a recorder!!!!!

record playing a familure piece or phrase with your horn.. then each of their models you picked that you seemed to react well too....

play back all the recordings... over and over - till you get down to two -then try re-recoding those and start over again....

then buy the one that made you sound the best - even it means going home with your bach strad!

there is no point in buying a horn that does not make you sound better....

HOWEVER, it is ok to buy a new horn that makes you sound just as good if you like the way it responds to you better than your current horn....

and don't forget to have fun... there are other things out there to do in the city....

let us know what you decide...

-marc

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

When I went to the shop they had I think three horns to try. Dave sent one of his employees home to get his trumpet so I could try it. The thing that I noticed is that the trumpet played easier then my Bach. They had me play on the Bach for a long time and listened to me.

The sound for me changed the more I played the trumpet after I received it so I'm not sure it is a good idea to base your decision on just sound.

One thing I will strongly recommend is, make sure the weight of the trumpet is comfortable for you.
I found that the heaver the trumpet is the better it played. Make sure that you can handle the weight if you play for long periods of time.

Bring enough music to play all day. Don't worry about overstaying your welcome. I stayed from opening to after closing. It's a lot of money and I'm sure they want you to be sure.

My trumpet projects really well but sometimes it's hard to hear myself in a section. Ask them about this.

One last thing. I wouldn't play Pictures.

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetchops on 2003-09-15 12:15 ]

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:13 am Post subject:

Outstanding advice all around. This is what makes TH invaluable.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

big brian · Veteran Member Joined: 06 Nov 2001 Posts: 440

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:23 pm Post subject:

big brian · Veteran Member Joined: 06 Nov 2001 Posts: 440

TrptMan · Regular Member Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 62

I've read all the posts. Although I see some excellent "what to look for in a new trpt" advice, I'm confused.

To the original poster. You're and avid monette user, but you don't have one? Perhaps you are an avid monette fan, wanting one?

[ This Message was edited by: trptman on 2003-09-16 13:07 ]