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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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 Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | It should be apparent to the patron without the need of explanation or interpretation from someone else. |
Not necessarily. Think about it. "Apparent to the patron?" What if that patron has absolutely no background, understanding or orientation to said piece of music? Does that make that piece of music invalid, then? I would say no.
As a matter of fact, I'm sure we've all had the experience of returning to a piece of music, or recorded performance years later, after initially rejecting it, only to discover that we now like it. So . . . what moved?
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dstdenis
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Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | If any form of art has to be explained to be appreciated, I don't care for it. |
Nor should you have to, as a patron. But Gordontrek wants to be an orchestral trumpeter, which would require him to play this genre, and I think learning more about it might help him come to terms with it and play it well.
(Apologies to Gordontrek if you've already studied it closely and still can't come to terms with it.)
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9348
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: | | It should be apparent to the patron without the need of explanation or interpretation from someone else. |
Not necessarily. Think about it. "Apparent to the patron?" What if that patron has absolutely no background, understanding or orientation to said piece of music? Does that make that piece of music invalid, then? I would say no... |
It makes it invalid to that particular patron. The more people who "don't get it", the more universally invalid the piece is. I wouldn't use the word invalid, though...I'd say irrelevant. I can paint a canvas blue and call it "Sky" and hail it as a masterpiece. Some hip people would see it as great art and try to explain it to the unwashed masses. Most people would think it was an unimaginative waste of paint, though, so which is it?
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Nonsense Eliminator
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 5212
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | The more people who "don't get it", the more universally invalid the piece is. |
By this measure, Gagnam Style is more valid than Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
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RandyTX
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: | | The more people who "don't get it", the more universally invalid the piece is. |
By this measure, Gagnam Style is more valid than Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. |
For a certain demographic, it almost certainly is. Like it or not, I think it's true.
Scholars do not decide what "good music" is for anyone other than themselves. Each of us decides what we want to listen to for various reasons and personal biases.
There seems to be a lot of name calling on all sides about the choices of others, which seems inherently pointless. If you don't want to hear something, don't listen to it.
You could argue "popularity" is important, probably more so to a recording house than anyone else though.
For myself, there are some modern pieces that I find interesting. There are even a few I find listenable more than once. However, on a percentage basis, the majority of them are not something I'm going to put into a regular listening rotation or even bother to purchase for my own use at all. I'm sure there are others that prefer it above anything else. To each his own.
I have similar thoughts about some modern jazz versus older forms. I much prefer improvisation that is in the vein of Bix or Louis with a recognizable melody within it. As opposed to something that may be technically very interesting to a Doctor of Arcane Chord Progressions, but almost incomprehensible to someone other than another similarly trained jazz musician.
If you think about it, both are similar situations. You have composition (or improvisation) that may be very interesting technically to people trained explicitly in it, but not particularly listenable to anyone else. If you are catering a certain form of music only to the tiny subset of the population that has studied it in detail, you can't really be surprised when it isn't popular in the general population. |
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: | | The more people who "don't get it", the more universally invalid the piece is. |
By this measure, Gagnam Style is more valid than Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. |
There's a difference between not getting something and not liking it.
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A_Ason
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Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 272
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: | | The more people who "don't get it", the more universally invalid the piece is. |
By this measure, Gagnam Style is more valid than Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. |
There's a difference between not getting something and not liking it. |
I think taste can be developed, and is learnt as part of a cultural environment. Put a person from the 17th century in front of most modern music, any style, and she would not get it.
Fine wines, impressionistic art, poetry, etc, all of these may need a learning curve before you really get it.
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jon_norstog
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 171
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Modern classical music covers a lot of ground. You ought to listen to Lou Harrison's American Gamelan, or the crazy, lyrical mysterious music of George Crumb. Or Phillip Glass's Einstein on the Beach. John Adams Short Ride in a Fast machine or On the Transmigration of Souls. To name a few.
It's a big world out there,
jn
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