"New" horn - Olds A6T

p76 · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: "New" horn - Olds A6T

Hi All,

Thought it might be time to talk about my "New" horn, purchased from a fellow THer, and after an interminable time waiting for my sister to visit from her home in the USA and bring it over, now resident in my front room, along with the other horns in my quiver.

It is a horn of legend, one I'd never seen until I (finally) laid eyes on mine - an Olds Ambassador A6T. This horn was one of the last gasps from the great Olds concern, with (according to some) less than 500 examples being made in the seventies before the company folded.

I assume that the decision to make a British (Shepherd's Crook) cornet was driven for financial reasons - the British Brass Band scene was moving into the era where "rivers of gold" were coming from lottery dividends, and bands had money to renew instruments more regularly - and Olds probably thought they could sell a lot of horns into that market.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, it didn't work for Olds - perhaps the British market couldn't get their head around buying an American cornet, and of course the Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign of that era was a great instrument in its own right. But, about 470 A6 horns left the Olds factory, thankfully for us horn geeks.

Now, to the horn. It's a large bore 0.468 - with a 4 3/4" bell Silver Plate
Here's a link to the 1977 brochure at Olds Central
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/amba6s.htm

It has the old school setup of lever trigger for 1st valve and ring trigger for 3rd. My particular horn has a few spots where the silver has worn through to the brass, and one small ding, but apart from that is in v. good condition for a horn going on 40 years old.

I have been most recently playing on a Besson 723, and the Olds is a much freer blowing horn, with a lot more core to the sound. With my Curry 1.25BBC mpc, the tone is a rich, truly cornet sound, with sweetness and authority at the tip of my tongue depending on what is required.

The valves are the usual Olds excellence. As a cornet, it's certainly one of the best I've ever played, at least the equal of the Sovereign.

Some pics here - along with some of my other horns

https://plus.google.com/photos/117194007911475872458/albums/5959268036224233825?authkey=CLLFsuzmlvFH

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:04 pm Post subject:

Congratulations...very nice! I've never seen one in person, but everyone who owns one raves about it. Too bad Olds decided to call it an Ambassador. I wonder what the logic was behind that?
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

p76 · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:16 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I wonder that too. Of course, in England (and Australia, where I live), Olds didn't really have a presence, so there wouldn't have been a deep knowledge that the Ambassador was the name of the base model for the long cornet and trumpet.

You would have thought that they'd give it a unique name though - unless they were so ahead of their time that they saw the renaissance of true Brass Banding in the US and were planning to ditch the long model Ambassador???

Maybe as an American brand they thought Ambassador was a nice name to introduce the American brand to England??

It was definitely built as a high-end cornet, the quality is fantastic (better than my c. 1974 Ambassador long cornet) and they obviously had someone or got someone in who knew how to build a "proper" BBB cornet, as the tone is spot on.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

p76 · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject:

Interestingly Dale, re-looking at the 1977 brochure http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds77/amba6s.htm I note that the word "Ambassador" is not mentioned in the brochure - the Cornet is referred to as the A6S.....hmmm.

I also note that the main waterkey on my horn is a different orientation to the one in the brochure......mines "standard", while the one on the brochure is "reversed".....

Interesting.

Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

gmaxe · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:10 pm Post subject:

Actually Roger, it does say ambassador A6 in the brochure!
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dmb · Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:30 am Post subject:

I covet your cornet.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

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p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:49 am Post subject:

Ah, typical me just looking at the headlines.......

Gordon, it's a cracker - if you ever make it to the colonies you're welcome to have a toot.

It's the tone that's really getting to me - it's so pure.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

GordonH · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:54 am Post subject:

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:03 am Post subject:

Going back to look at the brochure I note it states that the A6 is a shortened version of the original Ambassador.

So, I'm back-to-backing them as I sit here, and by golly, they're.... close.

The things that are the same are -
Pinky ring
Tuning slide
Second valve slide
First valve slide (sans trigger)
Valve cases

Things that are different -
Third valve slide
Valve caps, bottoms and buttons
Main water key
Receiver
Bell flare
Bracing between leadpipe and bell
Bracing between leadpipe, valves and bell
Weight - the A6 is way heavier than the A5

Unknown is leadpipe specs.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:07 am Post subject:

They are rare, this is the only one I've seen, and I know of only one other in OZ, although I'm sure there are more.

Not sure they were ever sold down here.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

I don't know how much truth there is in it, but I've heard that quite a few of them were sold in Wales. It's certainly a fine cornet. As far as the Ambassador name, there's another bit of apocrypha about that, but it's been repeated too many times to be worth another telling.

One thing that strikes me is the similarity of specifications between the A6S/A6ST and the regular Ambassador - same bore, same bell size, some other parts appearing to be common. But whatever made it different certainly made it a stout player.

I lust for your A6ST. I tried for several years to find one at a price I was willing to pay, and ended up settling for its lesser-known twin wearing the Reynolds Medalist logo. As far as I've been able to determine, they're identical, and at that time would have come off the same line.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

bixtone · Veteran Member Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 162

I own one and love it. Fantastic build quality - like a Mendez - great Olds valves. Even though it is a large bore, it has a fair amount of resistance and is great for playing jazz in a small room.

I have heard that the Kanstul 1531 is patterned after the A6, which would make sense, but I have not been able to compare the two.
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ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

I believe the Kanstul 1531 is patterned after the Benge 8Z, which in turn bears a strong resemblance to a Boston 3-Star which in turn …
_________________
Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

veery715 · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:01 am Post subject:

So I'm off to Wales to look for a Llysgennad A-6

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bixtone · Veteran Member Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 162

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject:

RandyTX · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject:

laurie · Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject:

Well done on snagging an A6. I got mine new in 1980 from smits music in Sydney. Very Fine cornet.