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Fusion2002
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 176
Location: Inver Grove Heights MN
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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After reading thru this thread I decided to give Blueprinting a try. I'm sending in my 68' Getzen Severinsen Large Bore in, shipping it off tonight. I have an appointment scheduled for April 3rd, Ill post my experience. I'm also having the levers taken off and amado waterkeys installed while it's there.
I had a Reeves alignment years ago with the original top caps (and loved the result) but I recently put a Harrelson trim kit on it, and the valve alignment is visually off on the 2nd valve by a lot. I can't wait to see how this turns out. |
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James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Thank you fusion2002 for entrusting us with your Getzen Bb trumpet for blueprinting. Though I'm not in the habit of not providing customers what they want, may I point out some things you may not have thought about your lever water keys.
One advantage besides more efficient draining of water, the variability of pad materials can provide you a range of response characteristics. Softer materials can make your articulations less pointed while firmer materials will result in crisper articulations. And to go even further, the addition of a "booster" in the center of the pad can brighten your sound.
Second, the adjustment of the water key screw tension can provide a means to dial in or out the amount of blow resistance, acting as a balancing point to suite an individual player's taste.
Amado keys great advantage is in the inverse. It provides a much harder reflective surface than cork and removes all the variables stated above. One might consider this a solution to having to replace worn water key corks periodically. However, our use of longer lasting cork material addresses this concern.
What direction you want to go is entirely up to you. If it were mine I'd forgo the Amado keys.
We look forward to the arrival of your Getzen Eterna trumpet for service. Thanks!
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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Fusion2002
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 176
Location: Inver Grove Heights MN
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Update: I just got my horn back from Osmun.
Here is what Jim did according to the receipt, Hey may share some more details with as well.
Blueprint Trumpet
Precision Valve Alignment
Round out Trumpet Bell Bow
De-Burr and size tuning slide
remount mpc receiver on center, tighten slides
Remove Levers and install Amado keys.
It arrived safe in the box I shipped it out in. When I got the horn out it was pretty cold so I let it warm up a bit. Visually the horn looks great. The Amado's look perfect.
The first valve was sticking a a lot out of the box, I re- oiled the valves and noticed that there was some grease/oil along the bottom of a few slides. I ended up giving the entire horn a bath in some soapy water and swabbed out the valve casings. I think some grease may have gotten on the first valve in transit. It seems like it's better now.
I only have had about 20 minutes playing but wanted to share a few things I noticed right away, all of the slides are much tighter now, they feel like a much newer horn. No more leaking droplets of water out of my tuning slide. When I kick out the 3rd valve slide, and push a valve down the pop sounds more pronounced than before, almost as if I have better compression. Same thing when I try to pull the first valve slide off without the valve down. The first few notes seemed a lot louder than I remember this horn playing. I did my warm up and then Clarke #1 and I feel like I can play a lot quieter than before, and the horn still speaks. I tried a little bit of upper register and High G's are popping out really nice. I'll post another update after I have more time playing but so far, I'm really happy with the results.
If Jim would like he can post some more details here. He did mention on the phone that he would email me a detailed summary, but I think they had miss-keyed my email address originally in their system. When I spoke with him he also mentioned that when the spit valve hole was drilled the factory may have pressed too hard, and there was a significant bulge right at one of the water levers, I'm not sure if it was the 3rd valve, or the tuning slide though.
Thanks again Jim!
-Tom |
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uglylips
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 777
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| uglylips wrote: | I sent my '73 Bach 229/25H to Osmun this January for their blue printing service and had a terrible experience!
I was told the blue printing service was free. What followed was a repair estimate for $1100 that included a valve rebuild, chemical clean, new receiver, rounding out bell bow, and removing dents from the bell. I wanted to only have this horn chemical cleaned as it had deposits in the leadpipe and it needed a good cleaning. I've had chemical cleans done in the past by other technicians and the cleaning alone can significantly improve an instrument. Jim Becker wanted me to at least get the valve alignment at the same time and I declined this service. He did talk me into getting the dents out on the bell and I went ahead with this, the chemical cleaning, adding a 1st slide pull button, and resizing solder connections on three tuning slides. The bill I received was for $319.00 and I paid it plus shipping.
My trumpet was sent to Osmun Music in excellent working condition and it arrived back to me after their services in an unplayable condition. The 1st valve was damaged. It was bent and sticking making the horn unplayable. There was a gritty and dirty residue throughout the instrument especially in the valves. The inside slide tubes were not cleaned to a brassy "yellow color" as Jim Becker had described and the silver plate was not polished. In addition to this the first slide ring was modified without my approval. The ring and flange were cut to bring it closer to the valve casing. There was brief discussion about this, but I never gave my approval. I had asked for this work not to be done. The ring was not comfortable in this new position and had a piece of metal cut out at the bottom of the ring.
I notified Osmun immediately about these problems. Osmun wanted me to send the instrument back to them so they could inspect it. I declined and instead asked for a partial refund. This is because of the poor communication and customer service that I received from Osmun. Osmun refused to give me a partial refund of even $100. I didn't want to take a chance at having further problems or expenses. Instead, I choose to have the instrument repaired by a local technician. Osmun still refused to give me a partial refund after I had the valve repaired and the instrument cleaned by a local technician. I ended up paying an additional $340.00 in repairs to local technicians to get this instrument properly cleaned, the damaged valve repaired, and the 1st slide ring replaced. In other words, I got screwed! |
I thought I should update my post about how the issues with this trumpet were resolved. I had a third technician look at this trumpet and he resolved all issues and significantly improved the instrument.
The problems with this trumpet were in the leadpipe and the tuning slide. The entire horn was thoroughly cleaned, especially the leadpipe. All leadpipe deposits were removed and the existing receiver was reset. It didn't need to be replaced. The existing tuning slide was also cleaned well and a custom tuning slide made with Bach parts for more focus and core. After this work the horn played incredibly well. This is all it needed. The valves and bell bow, etc. were fine and didn't need any work. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| uglylips wrote: | | uglylips wrote: | I sent my '73 Bach 229/25H to Osmun this January for their blue printing service and had a terrible experience!
I was told the blue printing service was free. What followed was a repair estimate for $1100 that included a valve rebuild, chemical clean, new receiver, rounding out bell bow, and removing dents from the bell. I wanted to only have this horn chemical cleaned as it had deposits in the leadpipe and it needed a good cleaning. I've had chemical cleans done in the past by other technicians and the cleaning alone can significantly improve an instrument. Jim Becker wanted me to at least get the valve alignment at the same time and I declined this service. He did talk me into getting the dents out on the bell and I went ahead with this, the chemical cleaning, adding a 1st slide pull button, and resizing solder connections on three tuning slides. The bill I received was for $319.00 and I paid it plus shipping.
My trumpet was sent to Osmun Music in excellent working condition and it arrived back to me after their services in an unplayable condition. The 1st valve was damaged. It was bent and sticking making the horn unplayable. There was a gritty and dirty residue throughout the instrument especially in the valves. The inside slide tubes were not cleaned to a brassy "yellow color" as Jim Becker had described and the silver plate was not polished. In addition to this the first slide ring was modified without my approval. The ring and flange were cut to bring it closer to the valve casing. There was brief discussion about this, but I never gave my approval. I had asked for this work not to be done. The ring was not comfortable in this new position and had a piece of metal cut out at the bottom of the ring.
I notified Osmun immediately about these problems. Osmun wanted me to send the instrument back to them so they could inspect it. I declined and instead asked for a partial refund. This is because of the poor communication and customer service that I received from Osmun. Osmun refused to give me a partial refund of even $100. I didn't want to take a chance at having further problems or expenses. Instead, I choose to have the instrument repaired by a local technician. Osmun still refused to give me a partial refund after I had the valve repaired and the instrument cleaned by a local technician. I ended up paying an additional $340.00 in repairs to local technicians to get this instrument properly cleaned, the damaged valve repaired, and the 1st slide ring replaced. In other words, I got screwed! |
I thought I should update my post about how the issues with this trumpet were resolved. I had a third technician look at this trumpet and he resolved all issues and significantly improved the instrument.
The problems with this trumpet were in the leadpipe and the tuning slide. The entire horn was thoroughly cleaned, especially the leadpipe. All leadpipe deposits were removed and the existing receiver was reset. It didn't need to be replaced. The existing tuning slide was also cleaned well and a custom tuning slide made with Bach parts for more focus and core. After this work the horn played incredibly well. This is all it needed. The valves and bell bow, etc. were fine and didn't need any work. |
I have no idea what really happened here, but I find it very difficult to believe that the blueprint service was originally quoted as “free.” Why would Osmun, or anyone else, offer this type of service at no charge?
I hope Jim comments on this, based upon everything I have ever heard, and a few personal conversations with Mr. Becker I have had, this all sounds very odd.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2415
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | I have no idea what really happened here, but I find it very difficult to believe that the blueprint service was originally quoted as “free.” Why would Osmun, or anyone else, offer this type of service at no charge?
I hope Jim comments on this, based upon everything I have ever heard, and a few personal conversations with Mr. Becker I have had, this all sounds very odd.
Brad |
Osmun Music very appropriately replied to these initial claims back in on the second page of this thread.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1367025#1367025
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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uglylips
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 777
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | I have no idea what really happened here, but I find it very difficult to believe that the blueprint service was originally quoted as “free.” Why would Osmun, or anyone else, offer this type of service at no charge?
I hope Jim comments on this, based upon everything I have ever heard, and a few personal conversations with Mr. Becker I have had, this all sounds very odd.
Brad |
I'm not sure either. Yes, something absolutely went wrong here. It was several years ago when this happened. I was only updating the post today with the resolution I ended up with for the trumpet. I did always think this was very odd, especially with Jim's outstanding reputation on TH. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| uglylips wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | I have no idea what really happened here, but I find it very difficult to believe that the blueprint service was originally quoted as “free.” Why would Osmun, or anyone else, offer this type of service at no charge?
I hope Jim comments on this, based upon everything I have ever heard, and a few personal conversations with Mr. Becker I have had, this all sounds very odd.
Brad |
I'm not sure either. Yes, something absolutely went wrong here. It was several years ago when this happened. I was only updating the post today with the resolution I ended up with for the trumpet. I did always think this was very odd, especially with Jim's outstanding reputation on TH. |
So, Osmun music actually told you initially that their blueprint service was “free?” I’m fine with just letting this drop, I “don’t have a dog in the fight”, but something doesn’t ring true to me here. Did I misunderstand something?
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I would like to clarify what we offer free to our customers. With prospective repair jobs we provide free diagnostics consisting of a valve compression test and sample measurements of critical components like mouthpiece receiver gap, an inspection of overall condition to determine where any improvements may be realized. This information is shared with our customers in order for them to make informed decisions regarding prospective repairs. I do not recall the precise diagnostic on the 1973 Bach C trumpet, but am fairly confident I would not recommend a valve rebuild, major parts replacement or any other costly repair had we not deemed if necessary to fully restore it to top condition. On occasion expectations are not met and we welcome the opportunity to make things right. Unfortunately in this case we never were given the chance to have the instrument back here to do so.
That's all I have to say at this time and need to get back to the bench to take care of pending repairs.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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benlewis
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1011
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:30 am Post subject: |
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While I cannot address the specifics of what has been posted previously, I will say that I have used Osmun and Mr. Becker on numerous occasions for some pretty detailed work and have never been less than totally satisfied.
HTH
Ben |
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Richard A
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:27 am Post subject: Osmun Music |
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Like many other folks, I, too, have been a well satisfied customer for a number of years.
James Becker has always reviewed with me what his recommendations were, the estimated cost and turnaround time, and never did any work that I had not approved.
_________________
Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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EricM224
Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Let me start off by saying this; I bought a Bach 190S37 50th Anniversary Strad back in November. I thought it was one of the best production line Bach trumpets I'd ever played. It was so good that I was hesitant to get the blueprinting service done. However, a good friend of mine has the exact same horn I do, and he had it done to his. When I play tested his, not only did I think it was one of the best Strads I'd ever played, I thought it was one of the best Bbs I'd ever played!
So I made my appointment with Jim, and sent my horn off. What I got back was not the same instrument I sent... it was so much better than I could have ever imagined! The slotting, evenness of sound/blow... everything was better. I felt silly for being hesitant to send the horn. I will play this trumpet until it falls apart!
Thanks to Jim for offering this service. It's worth every penny!!!
_________________
Bach Trumpet Artist - Clinician
Assistant Professor of Trumpet
University of Louisiana at Monroe
www.ericsiereveldmusic.com |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have had Osmun service my Bb. I am very happy with the service and do not hesitate to recommend them.
That said, after they received the horn I was surprised when I was told that they required a chem clean before doing the work I arranged. It is possible that I might have been told when arranging for the work and forgot.
Between cross country shipping and the cost of the chem clean I might have reconsidered whether or not to use a local repair shop.
Again this is not meant to be a complaint just a heads up. |
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James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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In response to LittleRusty, we can't know the condition of your trumpet until it arrives for it's appointment. Upon arrival we inspect and recommend additional work when needed. Sometimes we receive trumpets with layers of copper carbonate and/or bio-film inside that prevent us from performing our work. Worth mentioning, our ultrasonic/chemical cleanings are discounted by 1/3 when added to a PVA or blueprinting service.
I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| James Becker wrote: | In response to LittleRusty, we can't know the condition of your trumpet until it arrives for it's appointment. Upon arrival we inspect and recommend additional work when it's needed. Sometimes we receive trumpets with layers of copper carbonate and/or bio-film inside that prevent us from performing our work. Worth mentioning, our ultrasonic/chemical cleanings are discounted by 1/3 when added to a PVA or blueprinting services.
I hope this is helpful. |
<snip>
Removed erroneous calculation of full price.
I was told that this was normal procedure before working on a horn, not due to a need to clean deposits found after inspecting. At the time if found it very irritating that this wasn't communicated up front before I shipped the horn across the continent. I cannot find any email trail confirming my memory about the cleaning requirement so I suspect it was communicated on the phone.
I do have the receipt showing both the PVA and utrasonic cleaning and their costs.
Note, I am not disgruntled, nor am I looking for a refund. I am satisfied with the work done and have recommended Osmun since this transaction.
Last edited by LittleRusty on Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3303
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="LittleRusty"] | James Becker wrote: | | ... Worth mentioning, our ultrasonic/chemical cleanings are discounted by 1/3 when added to a PVA or blueprinting services. ... |
<removed per request from LittleRusty>
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I read it as the cleaning is DISCOUNTED by 1/3, not that the cleaning is 1/3 the regular price.
<snip>
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Last edited by JayKosta on Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | James Becker wrote: | | ... Worth mentioning, our ultrasonic/chemical cleanings are discounted by 1/3 when added to a PVA or blueprinting services. ... |
Respectfully, if the discounted price with a PVA is $149 then I would really hated to have paid the full $447 instead of the $149 I paid.  |
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I read it as the cleaning is DISCOUNTED by 1/3, not that the cleaning is 1/3 the regular price.
Which suggests that the regular price of the cleaning at that time would have been $149 + 75 = $225.
Jay |
You are correct that my math was wrong. Just to be clear, 1/3 of 150 is 50, not 75. So the full price would have been ~$200. I will correct my earlier post when I get home. |
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veery715
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 4313
Location: Ithaca NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted in consideration of other changes.
_________________
veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
Last edited by veery715 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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My apologies to Osmun for the incorrect price calculation.
For me this all boils down to what I understood when I discussed the service and its costs and what I was told on the phone when I first remember being told about the chem clean.
I suggest that in both my case and UglyLips' case that we should have asked for an exhaustive written estimate. If a chem clean might be necessary it also should be on the written estimate.
That way if my memory is faulty I would have discovered it before my first post on my experience.
(now watch Osmun find the written estimate they sent me. I did search my email archive and am sure I didn't get one. BTW, if indeed they did send me one I will be glad to remove my posts on my experience. Although any of my posts that are quoted will require other member's cooperation to delete the quoted posts.) |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| veery715 wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | JayKosta wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | James Becker wrote: | | ... Worth mentioning, our ultrasonic/chemical cleanings are discounted by 1/3 when added to a PVA or blueprinting services. ... |
Respectfully, if the discounted price with a PVA is $149 then I would really hated to have paid the full $447 instead of the $149 I paid. |
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I read it as the cleaning is DISCOUNTED by 1/3, not that the cleaning is 1/3 the regular price.
Which suggests that the regular price of the cleaning at that time would have been $149 + 75 = $225.
Jay |
You are correct that my math was wrong. Just to be clear, 1/3 of 150 is 50, not 75. So the full price would have been ~$200. I will correct my earlier post when I get home. |
If you paid $149, and that is the price discounted 1/3, then the full price would be ~$225, discounted by ~$75 to ~$149. |
I give up on doing math.  FYI, I had removed the whole price part of the quoted post above. |
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