CHET BAKER did not know scales or chords....CAN YOU BELIEVE?

TrumpetMD · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:11 am Post subject:

I vote for #3.

If Chet's abilities were all from his natural intuition, this implies (for some) that he didn't have to work hard to be a great trumpet player. And if this is true, then maybe I can also be a great jazz soloist without having to work hard.

Who wants to 'shed hours every day working on patterns, scales, and other fundamentals? Chet didn't need to.

Mike
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area51recording · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 480

It sucks to hear, but for some people it seems to be the case....

Listen, this dosen't spring from any of 1,2,or 3 for me. I can't do it. I'm not insecure about my talent, because I KNOW I don't possess that kind of acumen personally. I'm speaking from personal experience from decades of playing and gigging that I have met and played with guys (not just trumpet players, and only maybe 3) that I KNOW simply were able to hear and play some magnificent stuff without a comprehensive knowledge of what they were doing. In at least one case the guy happened to have perfect pitch, so that may have been a factor. At any rate these were rare occurrences and I never felt threatened by it (maybe a bit jealous!). Chet may or may not have been one of these freaks of nature, who cares really, but I'm saying from personal experience that these kind of players, albeit rare, do exist......

John Mohan · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:33 am Post subject:

veery715 · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:11 am Post subject:

We don't need no stinkin' validation!

Uh...did I do that right?
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Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

You learn all the rules, and then you learn to break the rules.
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Steve A · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:15 am Post subject:

TrumpetMD · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:44 am Post subject:

Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

I also agree with Steve. The whole point is to enjoy Chet Baker's art/playing. When I go to the museum and admire Picasso or Monet, I don't spend too much time thinking about what the chemical make-up of the paint was or what kind of brush he used. It's about appreciating and feeling the artistic statement and it's beauty.
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Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA

MrOlds · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:08 am Post subject:

I recall reading some anecdote about Michelangelo. Someone asked him about how he managed to create sculptures out of pieces of marble. He said something like the figure was already in there he just chipped away until he found it. Or something like that.

I believe there are many artists that develop only the technique they need to express the art they already have inside, rather than developing a complete catalogue of techniques and then set about finding the art.

So what Chet didn't know or couldn't do isn't really important to me. He found a way to get his art out and it is wonderful to hear.

razeontherock · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:32 am Post subject:

razeontherock · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:52 am Post subject:

terrystrand · New Member Joined: 22 Apr 2014 Posts: 3

I am a trumpet player for decades.

I have also read pretty nearly every book, article, interview, etc. on my trumpet 'hero'.

Somebody asked him why he never practiced and he replied, 'Why? I gig every week, every day! That's my practice.' Of course, Chet was a savant, i.e. he had the very rare ability to play totally by ear. His pianist, Russ Freeman said Chet had no idea about harmonic theory, though he could read music a bit.

BTW, you trumpet guys/girls may want to give a shout out like I do to Chet's long time girlfriend, Dianne Vavra who is on FaceBook. She was a huge part of Chet's life for years and especially at the end. RIP, Chet:

https://www.facebook.com/diane.vavra.5?fref=ts

Hugh Anderson · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398

When I was growing up, there were lots of people who played 'by ear.' Those who got good also learned chords, scales, etc. They may have used different terminology for it than reading musicians, but they knew.

razeontherock · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Chet Baker

Hugh Anderson · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398

Yeah, and besides, practicing sets off the neighbor's car alarm.

MFaddicted · Veteran Member Joined: 08 May 2014 Posts: 150

terrystrand · New Member Joined: 22 Apr 2014 Posts: 3

Chet Baker is fascinating because you and I can never become as 'good'.

Not with all the work, music degrees, or practicing in the world.

And to be able to still make beautiful melodies, jazz, and to even be able to play after shoving an estimated million dollars worth of heroin into his veins over the course of thirty years is even more amazing.

Over the decades I've listened to Chet's tunes, watched them on YouTube, read every book and article and interview about the great Chet Baker, emulated his playing...and he is still a mystery man.

He was a gently guy, but as a typical addict he tossed people and opportunities under the bus when they conflicted with his need to cop.

jazz_trpt · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject:

I would suggest a couple of things (scrolling back a few responses) -

Don't compare major artists, it's a waste of time, except to identify what you like about them. Celebrate their differences.

Also, I don't think it's productive to concentrate on the drug use of 50s jazz musicians. Let their body of work speak. I know that some artists went through periods where their addictions affected their music, but if you knew nothing about that, would their music still speak to you?

Or, put another way, if we dropped the needle, could you tell they were using? If not, why concentrate on it?

There are cautionary tales to be dug out if you want to find them, but many of us (most of us?) are interested in capturing some piece of the magic.
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Dan O'Donnell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287

I absolutely LOVE Chet's music.

It is my personal opinion that one of the ways he got the mellow, rich and warm sound was due to the lack of tension that is sometimes caused by us Trumpet players overly-thinking and worrying about the next chordal progression or the high note coming up in a chart.

He played the Trumpet with his heart, checked his ego at the door and played beautiful music.

After watching a couple Biographies about his life...his soul appeared to be both sad and lonely...I can hear it in his tone meaning he spoke with his horn which we should all strive for

Regarding practice...when I get to busy and lazy to go into the wood shed, I always refer to this...

"If practice is so important; how did Wayne Bergeron have a Double C in Jr. High school?...He certainly did not practice for many years to achieve that..."

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Psalms 150:3

terrystrand · New Member Joined: 22 Apr 2014 Posts: 3

I think being interested and studying Chet the Man, as well as Chet the Trumpeteris simply interesting. And worthwhile.

I don't believe that over thinking was ever Chet's problem...about life, love, chords, etc.

Dean Martin's wife and Ronald Reagan's daughter both famously said, 'I lived with him, but I don't think I ever really knew him.' Same was said about Chet.

Doc Severinsen practiced hours and hours a day...if you read his interviews or watch them on YouTube.

But Chetty played and played and played and almost never practiced, yet he could perform the most complex yet intuitive jazz improv without ever using cliches, and while strung out on heroin.

Amazing. Miss ya, Chet...gone, but not forgotten.