Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: chet
mcgovnor wrote:
Chet wasn't from the theory study hard analyze Transcribe boy this is a challenge I must meet school. He was from the ears women narcotics beat generation school. And he could let it drop off his chin like spilled milk. Just like Stan. As I said enjoy the journey make your money and whatever but Chet didn't know too much and neither did Stan. They were just gifted and really understood their talent..they knew it..and believed it because it was obvious. .naturally..they were better than everyone else.[/i]
Profound, Bro. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 2190 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject:
kehaulani wrote:
Ah yes, Wikipedia as a definitive source.
Regarding his time at El Camino, he did not "study" harmony and theory there. Basic theory was a requirement at college but he just had no interest in it. In a course that most got Bs or As in, Chet was given an F.
As the next semester was beginning, he is quoted as saying, "To me, if it sounds right it is right. Maybe this rule stuff is all right for those who have no ear or creative ability."
Furthermore, when he was in the Army, he was known to be faking his parts in band because he couldn't read them well enough. He is reported to have done the same thing at college and in high school before that.
His close friend Bob Whitlock said, "Most of us play by ear assisted by some knowledge of harmony and counterpoint. Since Chet didn't have the benefit of these tools, he was forced to do it all by ear. And therein lies the key to his genius."
There are plenty of interviews out there with people who claim that Chet didn't read or know harmony. But if you dig a little deeper, you might conclude that Chet enjoyed perpetuating that myth and maybe even went out of his way to do so. The Youtube clip with Russ Freeman is interesting, because a friend of mine was talking to him and heard this story: Chet sat down one night and wrote out a beautiful harmonized composition. Russ said, "I thought you didn't know theory!", and Chet just smiled and winked at him.
He's showing off his Committee. If you owned one in that condition, you'd show it off, too. _________________ Monette LTJ Bb
Getzen Severinsen Bb
Kanstul 1500 Bb
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Monette Prana B2S3, B2FL, B2LS3
Monette Prana FLG2
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 79 Location: Melbourne Australia
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject:
[quote/]There are plenty of interviews out there with people who claim that Chet didn't read or know harmony. But if you dig a little deeper, you might conclude that Chet enjoyed perpetuating that myth and maybe even went out of his way to do so. The Youtube clip with Russ Freeman is interesting, because a friend of mine was talking to him and heard this story: Chet sat down one night and wrote out a beautiful harmonized composition. Russ said, "I thought you didn't know theory!", and Chet just smiled and winked at him.[/quote]
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:00 am Post subject:
Chet could understand harmony and chords, but he could not tell you what notes are in a chord. There are videos of him noodling around or singing the notes of a chord to other band members. Other evidence of this is his starting a tune based on its first note. Almost everyone who predominantly plays by ear uses this technique.
Chet could certainly read and write music, but he would not have lasted a day in the sort of classes where jazz is taught today. Nor would he pass many auditions.
This says more negative things about us than it does about him. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Chet could understand harmony and chords, but he could not tell you what notes are in a chord. There are videos of him noodling around or singing the notes of a chord to other band members. Other evidence of this is his starting a tune based on its first note. Almost everyone who predominantly plays by ear uses this technique.
Chet could certainly read and write music, but he would not have lasted a day in the sort of classes where jazz is taught today. Nor would he pass many auditions.
This says more negative things about us than it does about him.
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 am Post subject:
GordonH wrote:
Chet could understand harmony and chords, but he could not tell you what notes are in a chord. There are videos of him noodling around or singing the notes of a chord to other band members. Other evidence of this is his starting a tune based on its first note. Almost everyone who predominantly plays by ear uses this technique.
Chet could certainly read and write music, but he would not have lasted a day in the sort of classes where jazz is taught today. Nor would he pass many auditions.
This says more negative things about us than it does about him.
Theloious Monk could not make the finals of a Monk Competition either! _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com
I played it once and listened to the recording and I was amazed at some of the stuff I heard. For example, around 42 seconds in, Chet kind of multiple-tongues that line, very cleanly. I had no idea he could do stuff like that. He also really sounded good on fast tempos.
I agree that he probably knew a lot more than people are giving him credit for. How well he knew changes I honestly don't know, he always played in the right chord.
It's like Duke Ellington said, "If it sounds good, it is good." Not saying we shouldn't know changes, or that we should be ignorant, but in the process of studying all of the theory many people are really into these days, I think it's important to remember we are playing music, not doing math. People love listening to Chet. Maynard didn't know the Locrian mode, but made a lot of people happy with his solos. Erroll Garner couldn't read music, and neither could Buddy Rich. That said, we should strive to know changes, it does make you a better improviser. And you have to be able to read. But these guys show us that simply "learning all of the rules" is far from the only important thing. _________________ Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:09 am Post subject:
Wager a bet? I'll say that Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart could chart the bass line and write a line of counterpoint to any of the 'play what's not there' negative space of Miles, or of Chet. In real time. Heck, given a day he could probably pen a symphony based on what might have happened in the rests between what these guys did blow. From memory. But he too died penniless. That's the trick of genius. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject:
connicalman wrote:
Wager a bet? I'll say that Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart could chart the bass line and write a line of counterpoint to any of the 'play what's not there' negative space of Miles, or of Chet. In real time.
Well, just to keep this going, I'll take that bet. Now prove it. _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject: chet
Mozart made plenty of money, he just played pool for money and lost. He had a team of horses take him to the grave, not a poor man's activity in those days. He IS said to be the most complete musician among the composers of his style.
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject:
I did a gig with Blind Moze "Art" Neckbone Jackson. Cat could play, but couldn't read squit. I asked him how he could play like that without knowing music. He said "just open up your ears and blow . . ." _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:04 am Post subject: Re: I
mcgovnor wrote:
I especially like the contributions ...written definitively..by guys who never met the man.
This is quite destructive, read a recently written book about Napoleon. But now I realised I wasted my time because it's impossible that the writer could have known the man personally!
Bull sh t. Wake up friend. One can not speak from a standpoint of knowledge concerning what a person did in his personal life if there isn't any real info available about that person addressing the subject at hand. There isn't really any info out there to research and form an opinion by regarding guys like Chet and Stan and the subject on tap. However..there is info available contributed by those who knew the men..or man... .What is negative is the elevation of subjective opinions based on sentimentality or an unexpressed hope..being projected onto an artist ..for no good reason..or positive reason at all. I'm sure Chet looked into some stuff and had the basic knowledge needed for him..synthesized by him..in.order to do what he needed to do. Look..Stan Getz had to know something...he was accepted at Julliard. As a bassoon major. Really...the devotee of today who uses jazz theory books knows ions more than Chet, Stan and a dozen more like minded.players combined.
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