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Brass_Of_All_Trades
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Joined: 11 Aug 2014
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 Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: Does Chicago style apply to jazz/commercial players? |
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I've noticed that most of posters on this sub forum seem to be legit oriented and most examples of the Chicago school are from orchestral players. Also, I've noticed that most commercial players tend to focus more on the embouchure and tend to analyze things more than classical players.
I like the idea of wind and song and the way it simplifies everything but I'm not sure how well it applies to someone like me who aims to a solid jazz, funk, fusion, and lead player. |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
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Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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You need to explore the Adam Forum.
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jiarby
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it really only applies to pizza and hot dogs. |
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Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Keeping the sound you wish to achieve in mind, i.e. using a sound model, and playing to that model, applies to anything you are playing. As does good wind support. My teacher had me spend time with recordings and Aebersold to improve my jazz chops (something I have done rarely the past year or two, alas). Listen, emulate, play to the sound you want to hear.
As for Pat's comment, well, nothing Bill Adam presented contradicts the Chicago approach AFAIK (admitting I only met him a few times and was never his student), and since Pat plays a bit of jazz it wouldn't hurt to pop over there... 
FWIWFM - Don
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
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Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Herman rev2 wrote: | Keeping the sound you wish to achieve in mind, i.e. using a sound model, and playing to that model, applies to anything you are playing. As does good wind support. My teacher had me spend time with recordings and Aebersold to improve my jazz chops (something I have done rarely the past year or two, alas). Listen, emulate, play to the sound you want to hear...
FWIWFM - Don |
Exactly!
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Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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bike&ed
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Does Chicago style apply to jazz/commercial players? |
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| Brass_Of_All_Trades wrote: | I've noticed that most of posters on this sub forum seem to be legit oriented and most examples of the Chicago school are from orchestral players. Also, I've noticed that most commercial players tend to focus more on the embouchure and tend to analyze things more than classical players.
I like the idea of wind and song and the way it simplifies everything but I'm not sure how well it applies to someone like me who aims to a solid jazz, funk, fusion, and lead player. |
Most of today's "legit" players are more analytical than you might imagine, but the analysis is focused on the music itself, not the techniques involved. Clubs and studios of every kind are packed with Classical players who also play lead/rock/jazz/funk/etc, far more than vice versa. If you still need to learn to play high and gain endurance, you're still operating in the basic techniques region; much of that can be gained by focusing on the sound and feel instead of the technique itself. Extreme high playing is somewhat of an exception, but should not really be approached until one has a firm and comfortable grasp of the full "normal" range of the instrument. I've certainly been there; it's like we all want screw in an extra upper octave worth of strings onto our pianos before we've even learned our scales... |
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Brass_Of_All_Trades
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Joined: 11 Aug 2014
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Does Chicago style apply to jazz/commercial players? |
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| bike&ed wrote: | | Most of today's "legit" players are more analytical than you might imagine, but the analysis is focused on the music itself, not the techniques involved. Clubs and studios of every kind are packed with Classical players who also play lead/rock/jazz/funk/etc, far more than vice versa. If you still need to learn to play high and gain endurance, you're still operating in the basic techniques region; much of that can be gained by focusing on the sound and feel instead of the technique itself. Extreme high playing is somewhat of an exception, but should not really be approached until one has a firm and comfortable grasp of the full "normal" range of the instrument. I've certainly been there; it's like we all want screw in an extra upper octave worth of strings onto our pianos before we've even learned our scales... |
Extreme upper register playing isn't really a pressing concern for me at the moment. I care about owning the notes from high C to high G anytime and any day of the week more than hitting a triple high C or whatever.
I know that classical player's are also analytical but like you said their analysis is typically not towards the mechanics of playing. I've never heard an orchestral musician start talking about things like "wedge breathing", "tongue hiss", etc. "anchor tonguing", etc nor have I heard of one using gadgets like the PETE or pencil tricks and the like. |
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bike&ed
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Does Chicago style apply to jazz/commercial players? |
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[quote="Brass_Of_All_Trades"] | bike&ed wrote: |
Extreme upper register playing isn't really a pressing concern for me at the moment. I care about owning the notes from high C to high G anytime and any day of the week more than hitting a triple high C or whatever.
I know that classical player's are also analytical but like you said their analysis is typically not towards the mechanics of playing. I've never heard an orchestral musician start talking about things like "wedge breathing", "tongue hiss", etc. "anchor tonguing", etc nor have I heard of one using gadgets like the PETE or pencil tricks and the like. |
Exactly; most top-notch "legit" players don't need to use gadgets or technique trickery because they already have gained virtually complete control of the instrument within the range you mention (it's my preferred range as well, I haven't performed higher than a 4-line G in years). There are exceptions of course... |
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gringoloco
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Does Chicago style apply to jazz/commercial players? |
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| Brass_Of_All_Trades wrote: | | bike&ed wrote: | | Most of today's "legit" players are more analytical than you might imagine, but the analysis is focused on the music itself, not the techniques involved. Clubs and studios of every kind are packed with Classical players who also play lead/rock/jazz/funk/etc, far more than vice versa. If you still need to learn to play high and gain endurance, you're still operating in the basic techniques region; much of that can be gained by focusing on the sound and feel instead of the technique itself. Extreme high playing is somewhat of an exception, but should not really be approached until one has a firm and comfortable grasp of the full "normal" range of the instrument. I've certainly been there; it's like we all want screw in an extra upper octave worth of strings onto our pianos before we've even learned our scales... |
Extreme upper register playing isn't really a pressing concern for me at the moment. I care about owning the notes from high C to high G anytime and any day of the week more than hitting a triple high C or whatever.
I know that classical player's are also analytical but like you said their analysis is typically not towards the mechanics of playing. I've never heard an orchestral musician start talking about things like "wedge breathing", "tongue hiss", etc. "anchor tonguing", etc nor have I heard of one using gadgets like the PETE or pencil tricks and the like. |
We do all that stuff too. Talk to people that take auditions, they'll try anything to get better. |
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bike&ed
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Does Chicago style apply to jazz/commercial players? |
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| gringoloco wrote: |
We do all that stuff too. Talk to people that take auditions, they'll try anything to get better. |
Yeah, on the other hand, I guess that's true too. (as I look in the mirror with some embarrassment)  |
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Daniel Barenboim
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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No
DB |
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tpter1
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my take on it, FWIW.
I'd like to clarify: I'm no jazz player by any stretch. I'll be the first to admit it. Nor can I call myself an expert of Chicago School (there are posters here who are far more qualified to make that statement than me), although I do consider myself a follower of it.
What I know of the Chicago School and the approach of its followers is that it focuses on good breath (wind) with a good musical concept (song). "Be a story teller of sound" (Arnold Jacobs). Isn't that really what jazz musicians are trying to accomplish too? It's not a classical or jazz approach. It's a musical/pedagogical approach.
I can't see why it would not work for jazz musicians.
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trumpetplanet
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