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Berkeley Trumpet Custom Trumpet Anti-Pressure Device



 
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Winnipeg
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Joined: 05 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:20 am    Post subject: Berkeley Trumpet Custom Trumpet Anti-Pressure Device Reply with quote

Hello all. In my continuing quest to come back to the trumpet and more recently come back from Bell's Palsy I have come to understand that I've been doing a lot of things fundamentally wrong. I tend to jut my lover jaw out so that my lower teeth are beyond my upper for higher notes (which are not very high) and I use lots of mouthpiece pressure.

I was looking for tools to help unlearn these habits and stumbled on the Warburton anti-pressure tool and the Berkely device. I chose the Berkely device because you can actually play the trumpet with it as well as use it to mouthpiece buzz. My initial impression is that it does what it says it does. If I use too much pressure (which I can dial in) the air escapes out the side of the device and tone falls apart. This is different from the Warburton which cuts off the air. It helps a bit to make me aware of excess jaw jutting but that will be more up to my awareness I think

My questions are: Anybody have any experience with this gizmo?
Any comments about this as an effective tool in general and in terms of embouchure rehab? Thanks for any wisdom you have to offer.
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard of it but I never tried it. I think I'd get too annoyed with it really quickly. I had excessive pressure issues too and I solved them by being strict with myself and stop playing everytime I applied even the least bit of pressure. After a month or 2 I had re-trained my muscle memory enough to not automatically apply pressure to go up the scale (or play soft). It's still something I gotta pay attention to from time to time (got 20 years of bad playing habits to undo) but fortunately I've never needed a gizmo like that.

It is a tough habit to break though, and I wish you good luck with it. Hopefully the gizmo will work for you.
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Winnipeg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply. Congratulations on getting some control over the pressure issue. We know it's an issue for many players. For me, I've realized how completely unaware I've been of a variety of issues with pressure, I believe, being the biggest one. I've worked with a couple of teachers and yes, they've been helpful and have encouraged light pressure but neither them nor I were aware of how much pressure I use. Did it as a kid and young player and it worked for what I needed at the time. I'm going to try to get a local pro to try it and get an idea of what amounts of pressure are reasonable.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winnipeg wrote:
... I'm going to try to get a local pro to try it and get an idea of what amounts of pressure are reasonable.

------------------------------------------
For me, it's an ongoing learning experience of how to 'balance' and 'coordinate' the rim pressure on the upper and lower lip. I also 'transfer' the pressure from one lip to the other by using jaw control and a slight amount of mpc angle change while playing.

I think the critical point is that lip vibrations at the desired pitch must be possible - if excessive mpc pressure or lip tension PREVENTS vibrations, that's BAD.

And for high range playing, it's necessary to produce sufficient internal air pressure that will cause air flow and produce the vibrations.

A 'reasonable' amount of rim pressure should not cause pain or injury, Trying to use high rim pressure to 'smash your lips' into compliance is not good.

Jay
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the issue holistically, rather a symptom, cure fashion, these tools do nothing to improve things, but just give you a rap over the knuckles.

Why not treat the underlying reason for too much pressure? Often, this is a lack of air support and flow: the excess pressure is an unconscious way to address this imbalance. Go see a knowledgeable teacher and get the help. This will save time and make the end result far superior.
Cheers
Andy
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pepperdean
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain. I suffered some similar nerve damage caused by a case of shingles. As soon as I could feel my lip again, I jumped right back into playing hard, or at least trying. That probably caused more damage than the nerve problem.

At any rate, I believe balancing the pressure, not eliminating it, is the key. As a Caruso student and long-time practitioner of those concepts, I feel that optimal playing happens when the forward push of the chops neutralizes the inward pressure of the mouthpiece, allowing the embouchure to function freely.

For me, the return to reasonable playing was facilitated by some basic Caruso exercises, very soft Clark studies, and note bending.

Best wishes for your comeback.

Alan
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Winnipeg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I don't disagree with anyone and I do realize that it's all a balancing act. I've used Caruso and soft playing of Clark and other exercises extensively.

I'm a reasonable soft player (I'm using the John Daniel Special Studies for Trumpet book...he's got a bunch of good stuff on Youtube) ..and I'm told I have very good tone and pretty reasonable intonation, but I don't have the strength to be comfortable at the top of or above the staff...or I can do it briefly using excessive pressure. Another way of quantifying my "face" issue is that I was up to 4 minutes on the long pencil (Pops) before I got Bell's. Now it's all I can do to get a strong, 30-40 seconds.

Ongoing lessons advisable for sure but I'm old, have a pre-existing condition, and it's getting cold up here for outdoor work.

I'm going to try this for a while and see where it goes but not abandon the standards...Caruso, Chicowicz, Clark and Pops.
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One final thought: for me, it was also a mental thing. To my mind, high meant hard meant effort meant pressure! But high notes don't really require more effort than low notes. If you can somehow convince yourself that you don't need the pressure to hit those notes, you'll be able to play them with less pressure. I used to (sometimes still do) tighten up whenever I saw something at the top of the bar. Try to approach the note as if it were a low one (though it's easier said than done, I know, but it can help).
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If it were the person playing rather than the gear they use, I would sound even worse.

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Mpcs: AR Resonance MC 40med, MSLead 40sm & MFlgl 42lg
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Winnipeg
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again. Yes, I've heard that about high vs low notes being much the same and I watch in awe as I see players who look so completely relaxed almost regardless of where they're playing. The Holy Grail for sure.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several years ago I looked at this device. Someone had posted about it somewhere, maybe it was on you tube.

I can't find it on the Berkely site. Do you have a direct link?
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
Several years ago I looked at this device. Someone had posted about it somewhere, maybe it was on you tube.

I can't find it on the Berkely site. Do you have a direct link?

Perhaps this (Berkeley Trumpet Mouthpiece Custom Booster Anti-Pressure Exerciser) is what he is referring to?
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
trpthrld wrote:
Several years ago I looked at this device. Someone had posted about it somewhere, maybe it was on you tube.

I can't find it on the Berkely site. Do you have a direct link?

Perhaps this (Berkeley Trumpet Mouthpiece Custom Booster Anti-Pressure Exerciser) is what he is referring to?

Looks like the one from Germany that I demo in this video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvBORXU-J6A
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www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=127830&s=The-Best-Damn-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-Period-

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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
trpthrld wrote:
Several years ago I looked at this device. Someone had posted about it somewhere, maybe it was on you tube.

I can't find it on the Berkely site. Do you have a direct link?

Perhaps this (Berkeley Trumpet Mouthpiece Custom Booster Anti-Pressure Exerciser) is what he is referring to?

Looks like the one from Germany that I demo in this video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvBORXU-J6A

It does look like that. Hopefully the OP will watch the video and see your pros and cons.
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Winnipeg
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again. Thanks for the information and the link. I hadn't found the Warburton device. It does look like a better option than the German one that I have. The Warburton would end up costing more given the price of the device and the mouthpiece top that would be necessary and the issue of matching my current mouthpiece. Your review is right on in terms of intonation and the different feel of the horn and I agree that I wouldn't use this with a new player. The extra length introduced to the system also changes the overall "blow" of the trumpet and the resonances involved.

That said, I think it's greatest strength is as a buzzing device. The intonation thing is not an issue and it feels "normal" when just using the mouthpiece.

It's also working really well when I do bends in terms of very quickly "informing" me that I'm using too much pressure. It also lets me adjust the pressure to really light if I want to challenge my ability to press less when doing things like soft Clark studies.

From what I see online, Warburton's APE needs quite a bit of pressure before it closes off. That's certainly ok and part of its design. For me, that wouldn't be helpful for the rehab trail I'm on. The heaviness of the Berkeley is a bit of an issue as it's a bit hard to hold and balance when just doing mouthpiece buzzing.

My teacher just sent me this link: (Sorry if it's not an actual link. You may have to copy/paste)

https://store.bonsai-systems.com/en/16-quantiforce-brass

Now THAT's a pressure sensing system. Amazing but way more high tech than I'm after.

I'll certainly consider the Warburton product in future.

Thanks for taking the time to read and post. You all have been really helpful.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OPS has 3 plastic rings that adjust the strength of the device. They are different thicknesses plus you can use it with no rings at all. With that setting the slightest bit of pressure will activate it.

It's not as "micro"-adjustable as the other device but there are a whole buncha combinations you can try to find one that works for you.

For the ultimate in minimal-pressure aids, try the OPS with all three rings AND the spring removed. Yeah, buddy - that'll give ya a workout!
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JohnnyD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:25 am    Post subject: Berkley Anti Pressure for Trumpet Reply with quote

I have recently ordered the Berkley anti pressure tool. I am returning to the trumpet after 55 years. I have notice that I have always had a problem with playing high registers after a minute or two. Reading that too much pressure from pulling back on the horn limits blood flow to the embouchure. I have tried using a different grip on the horn but I just cannot get comfortable with it. Therefore I needed something to regulate the amount of pressure I am exhibiting. I feel if the tool is used properly for training it will be very useful. I am assuming that I will have to adjust my embouchure and that may take some time to get use too. But I am committed to give this tool a solid effort.
I will not receive until next week. I plan on commenting on it's usefulness in a month.
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